Catholicsm and the Military

[DebChris]

Originally Posted by Cat

I didn't know that a person has an option of selecting what their duties will be in the military. I thought that you obey orders, and go where you are assigned. I didn't know that you can refuse combat orders and opt to stock boxes, unless you've registered as a conscientous objector.

But I'm not military, so maybe I'm wrong about this.

All I'm saying is don't assume that you will only be stocking boxes in order to earn that education money and benefits.

You do not have the option of selecting the specific duties you will or will not perform. Most civilian employers likewise expect obedience from employees as a condition of employment. Prospective soldiers take a test that measures ability before being accepted. There are a variety of positions (Military Occupational Specialties) within the military. A good recruiter can help the potential soldier to explore his/her interests and where those interests and abilities best suit the overall military mission.
A soldier is also taught early the importance of disobeying illegal orders. There are channels within the military that the soldier can follow to address grievances and other concerns he/she may have while a member of the military.
It is important to have all promises in writing.

[maxdouglas402]

Originally Posted by Cat

I didn't know that a person has an option of selecting what their duties will be in the military. I thought that you obey orders, and go where you are assigned. I didn't know that you can refuse combat orders and opt to stock boxes, unless you've registered as a conscientous objector.

But I'm not military, so maybe I'm wrong about this.

All I'm saying is don't assume that you will only be stocking boxes in order to earn that education money and benefits.

you are correct. it all depends and what is scored on the ASVAB test. i actually spoke with an Army recruiter today and hopefully if my criminal and medical background check through i can apply to be an assistant chaplain !!!

HOPEFULLY!!!

[maxdouglas402]

is there anyone that has had an experience with the Army?

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by maxdouglas402

is there anyone that has had an experience with the Army?

Yes, I was an Armor officer in the Guard for several years.

What prior posters have said about the Air Force vis a vie Catholicism also hold true for the Army

[april32010]

if i may ask?why the change from air force?

[Armyvet007]

Originally Posted by maxdouglas402

Hi everyone! I was wondering if anyone knows where the church stands on young men joining the air force, i was considering joining because i know they will pay for my school as well as pay me to go to school. they also pay a couple hundred dollars every weekend if i were to go out to base camp as well as many other benefits... i would not be doing anything that is involved combat or killing others, only stocking boxes in a warehouse (this is what my friend does in the air force). is it bad to even be a part of an organization that has killed people? i know that Priests have joined the military and i know that it would help me advance in my schooling. what is your knowledge of this topic? any advice or experiences?

Priests in uniform should be a good indication that military service is acceptable for a Catholic.

Advice-
1. Get everything in writing.
1a. Don't believe anything the recruiter tells you. Mine told me the MOS I wanted wasn't available and wanted to sign me up as a medic. My dad [retired SGM] told him no thanks, we walked out, he chased after us and told me he just "found" a slot for the MOS I wanted.
1b. Take someone [preferably a senior NCO] who knows how the military works with you when you go in and sign up. See 1a for the reason why.
2. Pay careful attention to how 1 is worded ["needs of the service" "if available" "if possible"]
3. Read the fine print
4. See 1-3
5. Go ROTC instead of enlisting for college money if you can. ROTC is a better deal in the long run.
6. Go Active instead of NG or Reserve. You get taken care of better Active, and the NG and Reserve deploy to the same lovely spots that Active does.
7. Go Air Force over Army if you are not planning to make the military your career. It takes better care of it's members. Though you will have to live with the shame of being a glorified desk jockey who cries when the A/C breaks.
8. See 1-3
9. Don't buy a motorcycle, don't buy a fast car, wear your seatbelt.
10. Don't "fall in love" and marry the first girl you find at a bar, better yet don't go to bars.
11. Don't be first, don't be last, don't volunteer.
12. Trust in Murphy, avoid the good idea fairy.
13. Since you want to join the Air Force- The pointy end is where the bullets come out.
14. Seriously see 1-3

[maxdouglas402]

Originally Posted by Armyvet007

Priests in uniform should be a good indication that military service is acceptable for a Catholic.

Advice-
1. Get everything in writing.
1a. Don't believe anything the recruiter tells you. Mine told me the MOS I wanted wasn't available and wanted to sign me up as a medic. My dad [retired SGM] told him no thanks, we walked out, he chased after us and told me he just "found" a slot for the MOS I wanted.
1b. Take someone [preferably a senior NCO] who knows how the military works with you when you go in and sign up. See 1a for the reason why.
2. Pay careful attention to how 1 is worded ["needs of the service" "if available" "if possible"]
3. Read the fine print
4. See 1-3
5. Go ROTC instead of enlisting for college money if you can. ROTC is a better deal in the long run.
6. Go Active instead of NG or Reserve. You get taken care of better Active, and the NG and Reserve deploy to the same lovely spots that Active does.
7. Go Air Force over Army if you are not planning to make the military your career. It takes better care of it's members. Though you will have to live with the shame of being a glorified desk jockey who cries when the A/C breaks.
8. See 1-3
9. Don't buy a motorcycle, don't buy a fast car, wear your seatbelt.
10. Don't "fall in love" and marry the first girl you find at a bar, better yet don't go to bars.
11. Don't be first, don't be last, don't volunteer.
12. Trust in Murphy, avoid the good idea fairy.
13. Since you want to join the Air Force- The pointy end is where the bullets come out.
14. Seriously see 1-3

lol thank you armyvet007!!! i will take all of this into consideration! i was thinking about bringing my buddy (who is currently in the air national guard) with me next time i go see the recruiter, which is actually this thursday. thankfully by the grace of God i do not drink anymore! so there should be no issues with that! lol i do have a quick question, i want to be an assistant chaplain and this position requires that i score a 90 on the clerical section of my ASVAB. i plan on getting 90+ but if i do not happen to get a 90 will they still allow me to train for this position??

and to April32010 i actually ended up speaking to an Army recruiter when I went in to speak to an Air Force recruiter and like armyvet007 said i didnt see much of a career in the air force. although it is not completely out of the question. they also only require you to enlist 4 years of service where as the Army is 8 years. i also always wanted to be an army man ever since I was a kid and after speaking to the recruiter today especially after he mentioned the assistant chaplain position I started seeing a great opportunity to spread the word of God and to help others while maintaining a living for myself until i find my vocation in the Catholic Church.

I AM A BIT ANXIOUS ABOUT ALL THIS, SO HOPEFULLY MY NERVES CAN CALM DOWN WITH SOME PRAYERS. AND IF ALL ELSE FAILS THEN THIS IS NOT WHERE GOD IS CALLING ME

[AthenaC]

First of all, I strongly concur with the "get it in writing" advice before you sign. And don't be afraid to stick up for yourself. "That's not what my contract says" is not an obscenity (although you might think it is with the initial pushback you could get).

Somewhat tangential to the issue, but my parents get a periodical called Homiletic and Pastoral Review. Seems to be geared toward priests. I was flipping through it one day, and I happened upon an Army recruitment ad seeking priests to join as chaplains! The picture was of an Army guy in his Class B's (couldn't see the rank in the pic) and his wife holding a baby while a priest (with BDU sleeves visible under his alb) pours water over the baby's head. The text was (hold on let me get my phone, I took a picture of it .... ah! Here it is!) "The Army gives them the skills. Only you can give them the Sacraments. The U.S. Army needs qualified Catholic priests to serve soldiers and their families. Share the happiness and hardships of those who serve our country. Contribute to their lives and act "In Persona Christi," providing sacraments, spiritual discenment and support. Baptize their children, witness their marriages, and forge the bonds of love while celebrating Mass and Reconciliation. There is no better place of duty than to serve those who serve us."

I thought it was so very cool! And the existence of such an ad (which reads like it was written by other priests) should definitively answer any lingering concerns you have about the moral acceptability of military service.

Also somewhat tangential, but maybe it will help. You know how much money the US has spent on weapons research? Tons. A lot of that goes toward making weapons more accurate and minimizing collateral damage. So our concerns regarding war as a country are twofold - 1) the ability to wage just war at all; and 2) doing exactly what we want to do with weapons and no more. And our spending reflects that in most cases.

[AthenaC]

Originally Posted by Armyvet007

7. Go Air Force over Army if you are not planning to make the military your career. It takes better care of it's members. Though you will have to live with the shame of being a glorified desk jockey who cries when the A/C breaks.

Yes, absolutely. As former Air Force, I lived with the shame of being in better physical shape than all the other Air Force I knew, 2/3 of the Army I knew, and even some of the Marines. And I was on a joint service post, so I knew pretty equal amounts of all services.

I also live with the shame of being fluent in Mandarin and talking circles around any of the Army, Navy, or Marines in my Mandarin class. Even the Army people who signed up to be interrogators (so they had to have a minimum speaking skill).

So, ya. I'm just filled with shame. Just throwin' that out there.

[maxdouglas402]

Originally Posted by AthenaC

"The Army gives them the skills. Only you can give them the Sacraments. The U.S. Army needs qualified Catholic priests to serve soldiers and their families. Share the happiness and hardships of those who serve our country. Contribute to their lives and act "In Persona Christi," providing sacraments, spiritual discenment and support. Baptize their children, witness their marriages, and forge the bonds of love while celebrating Mass and Reconciliation. There is no better place of duty than to serve those who serve us."

this is a very cool quote! and i think that it would be so awesome to work beside a priest in the Army!! to be working beside a priest while serving my country would be such an honor. i understand this is a big deal so hopefully God will guide me to make the right choice, as long as my records go through this thursday everything should be clear for take off ... if God is willing

[DebChris]

Originally Posted by maxdouglas402

is there anyone that has had an experience with the Army?

I grew up as a military dependent. Don't call me an Army Brat. My father's response to that was "I don't raise brats." My husband served as a chaplain's assistant in Vietnam. We both served in the Army Reserves together. Do choose the Reserves over the Guard. Remember that the Guard is subject to the state rather than federal government. As a Guard, you could be called up for riot duty or to assist with natural disasters. Besides, the Reservists have a better reputation when it comes to discipline and esprit de corps.
My oldest brother and youngest sisters joined the Navy. Three of my brothers spent time in the Army, one making it a career.

Originally Posted by maxdouglas402

lol thank you armyvet007!!! i will take all of this into consideration! i was thinking about bringing my buddy (who is currently in the air national guard) with me next time i go see the recruiter, which is actually this thursday. thankfully by the grace of God i do not drink anymore! so there should be no issues with that! lol i do have a quick question, i want to be an assistant chaplain and this position requires that i score a 90 on the clerical section of my ASVAB. i plan on getting 90+ but if i do not happen to get a 90 will they still allow me to train for this position??

and to April32010 i actually ended up speaking to an Army recruiter when I went in to speak to an Air Force recruiter and like armyvet007 said i didnt see much of a career in the air force. although it is not completely out of the question. they also only require you to enlist 4 years of service where as the Army is 8 years. i also always wanted to be an army man ever since I was a kid and after speaking to the recruiter today especially after he mentioned the assistant chaplain position I started seeing a great opportunity to spread the word of God and to help others while maintaining a living for myself until i find my vocation in the Catholic Church.

I AM A BIT ANXIOUS ABOUT ALL THIS, SO HOPEFULLY MY NERVES CAN CALM DOWN WITH SOME PRAYERS. AND IF ALL ELSE FAILS THEN THIS IS NOT WHERE GOD IS CALLING ME

Adding to the advice of Army 007. Many soldiers fall in love when they meet the "exotic women" living overseas. With a more pluralistic society than in the past, this may not be as true as it once was. Nevertheless, there are foreign women seeking American husbands. It is one of the reasons behind all the paperwork that goes into an overseas marriage. It is better to go through this red tape before marriage than after. My brother, who married as a civilian, went through the process after he already had a child.
There appears to be a change in the recruitment obligation for the Army than in the past. With the Air Force and Navy, you are talking about a 4 year full time commitment. With the Army, it was six years. That is 3 years active duty followed by 3 years inactive reserve time. After the 3 years of active duty service, you may elect to go active Reserves and keep your active duty rank.
As a chaplain's assistant, my husband did have to carry a rifle. Part of his duty was protecting the chaplain who did not have a weapon (other than prayer and the Sacraments). Although he never told me, I did learn that a chaplain's assistant can expect to find himself on the front line as the chaplain brings the Sacraments and consolation to the men fighting on the front.

[AthenaC]

Originally Posted by DebChris

Many soldiers fall in love when they meet the "exotic women" living overseas. With a more pluralistic society than in the past, this may not be as true as it once was. Nevertheless, there are foreign women seeking American husbands.

This is still true. You can look around at the men and immediately tell with 99% accuracy:

1) Who has been overseas
2) Where they have been

Just by meeting their wife.

[DebChris]

Originally Posted by AthenaC

This is still true. You can look around at the men and immediately tell with 99% accuracy:

1) Who has been overseas
2) Where they have been

Just by meeting their wife.

One of my sister-in-laws is from Thailand, and another from Taiwan. My family lived overseas when I was growing up. For many young soldiers, on the other hand, the Korean or Japanese women they meet may be the first Asian women with whom they have had contact. The same holds true for women from the Middle East or any other place the young soldier may be stationed. These young men are naive when it comes to the challenges they may face when marrying somebody from a different culture. Military regulations are in place to protect them.

[Armyvet007]

OP-

When you talk to the recruiter-
1. See 1-3 of my prior post.
2. Make sure he understands you have no interest in the signing up if you can not be the MOS you want [Even if this is not completely true]. The recruiter isn't there to help you, he/she is there to help the service fill the service's needs. They aren't your "friend". Walk away if you have to [this dependant on family/fiscal situtation].
3. Your timing on wanting to sign up does not work in your favor in terms of how much the recruiter will work to get you what you want [high school graduation tends to glut the market on the number of people wanting to get into the services].
4. Don't sign up for something you do not want to do. You'll be stuck with it for the rest of your military career [it is extremely hard to change your MOS; or at least it was at the time of my medical retirement].
5. Figure out what you want from the military [career, college money, career and college money]. If you want a career- go active, college money-NG or Reserves, both- I'd say active, but I'm not really an unbiased source [silly guard and reserves].

ASVAB-
1. As far as I know you can take it as many times as you need.
2. Your score on the ASVAB is directly related to how well you take multiple choice tests [i.e. you guess well]. That is if they haven't changed the format too much from what it was when I took it [4 possible answers, 2 of which are obviously wrong]
3. Don't freak/stress yourself out over it.

Army chaplain assistant-
1. Don't expect to be assigned to a Catholic chaplain.
2. Don't expect to be heavly involved with the religous aspect of the chaplain's duties. That's his job, your job is to set the conditions [i.e. deal with all the BS and paperwork] so he can do his job.
3. Expect to be a secretary, "the" non-religous administrator for the chaplain team, a "gofer", a bodyguard, a "minder" [the person in charge of making sure the chaplain doesn't forget about his non-religous duties/responsibilities], the "odd job" guy, etc.
4. Being a chaplain's assistant isn't as bad as 1-3 make out. During both my enlisted and "dark side" time I noticed that the chaplain assistant had a good deal of independance, got to do a lot of non-sucky stuff with/for the chaplain, and could generally get away with a lot of stuff as long as a) he kept his nose clean b) kept the chaplain and the HHT 1SG [his 1SG] happy c) kept the chaplain out of trouble [see the second sentence in 2].
5. If you can, do your best to get assigned to a Squadron level unit. More fun stuff, less BS paperwork.
6. You'll go through basic and AIT at FT. Jackson [also known as "Relaxin Jackson"] I went there for basic, it's not that hard if you remember it's all a mental game. Try to avoid going during the rainy season [mud sucks, it sucks more in basic]. Start getting into shape now [push ups, sit ups, running].

[maxdouglas402]

Originally Posted by DebChris

Adding to the advice of Army 007. Many soldiers fall in love when they meet the "exotic women" living overseas. With a more pluralistic society than in the past, this may not be as true as it once was. Nevertheless, there are foreign women seeking American husbands. It is one of the reasons behind all the paperwork that goes into an overseas marriage. It is better to go through this red tape before marriage than after. My brother, who married as a civilian, went through the process after he already had a child.
There appears to be a change in the recruitment obligation for the Army than in the past. With the Air Force and Navy, you are talking about a 4 year full time commitment. With the Army, it was six years. That is 3 years active duty followed by 3 years inactive reserve time. After the 3 years of active duty service, you may elect to go active Reserves and keep your active duty rank.
As a chaplain's assistant, my husband did have to carry a rifle. Part of his duty was protecting the chaplain who did not have a weapon (other than prayer and the Sacraments). Although he never told me, I did learn that a chaplain's assistant can expect to find himself on the front line as the chaplain brings the Sacraments and consolation to the men fighting on the front.

thank you for all the advice DebChris i will definitely choose reserves over guard. and i wouldnt mind holding a gun to protect someone i just would feel bad if i shot someone and to what your were saying about marriage; basically your saying because of military regulations I would be unable to marry a woman outside of the US? not like i was planning on it but i was just wondering. and did your husband enjoy the position of assistant chaplain? what were the benefits of working beside the priest?