Teen Premarital Sex Continued

[nmcc89]

Originally Posted by francisca

My POV does not seem to support Church's teaching is just a conclusion you draw out of your own prejudice.

With respect, I'd disagree. You have made many statements regarding your support for AM and her husband to financially support DS in shacking up with his GF. As I showed previously the catechism clearly states that co-operating in someone else's sin is tantamount to committing the sin yourself (CCC 1868). The church categorically teaches that it is wrong to put yourself in a state of grave sin even for a perceived "greater" benefit (cf. the Church's stance on contraception or even abortion).

Originally Posted by francisca

I have been trying to focus on parenting and not demanding the boy to become suddenly mature, neither we press his button then "beep" suddenly he understand his situation. I find it futile condemning a boy who can't understand your message because he has been trying to defend his gf from other boyfriend who just dumped her after used her for sex, and now as parents they ask their son to to do the same as her ex did to her. So as parents what do they imply in their teaching when they ask him to dump the girl just as her ex did?. This is the topic I have been focusing on.

There, I hope your catholic thinking open up and realize that being catholic is not merely condemning sin without really thinking why it doesn't work that way.

I agree, there shouldn't be an emphasis on splitting them up for the sake of DS. There never has though, you've projected that onto the situation. All AM has been doing is asking for advice on how to deal with her rebellious son, not for advice on how to destroy his relationship. If he is trying to defend his GF then he needs to show more respect to her, he needs to show that she doesn't need to be having sex with him to keep him around, that he loves her for who she is, not what she does.

Originally Posted by francisca

From the parent point of view, despite they condemns sin like "typical stereotype of being catholic", they don't do it for the sake of catholic teaching either. They refuse to teach about sex and marriage (which is the catholic topic you should teach when it is about sexual education for your children). What they want is just him to dump the girl. My argument is to say that their condemning their sinful lifestyle is just sounds like a hype. I'm not saying that marriage HAS TO happen. I am saying that marriage a topic that you can't avoid, otherwise you just sounds like teaching that dumping a girl will make you more holy which means you are teaching a disguised permissive behavior, not a catholic way at all. Sure this is kind of hard for many to understand, because catholic condemnations has been used conveniently in this manner by boys parents for im sure a long long time when they dislike the girl, they bring up this topic so that their boy will just simply dump the girl.

I think you're assuming way too much about AM's education of her son. How do you know that they haven't taught him about sex and marriage? In fact, from reading through the previous posts I'd make the initial assumption that they have, as they seem to have provided a particularly loving and caring family life for their children. I had a good understanding of the Catholic teaching before I started sleeping with my ex gf, unfortunately I consciously decided to disregard it in a pursuit of more immediate gratification.

Marriage itself needs to have a good foundation, this relationship is based on lust not mutual respect or love for each other. Hence AM and her husband's reluctance to have a conversation about marriage with their son; it's not about them not supporting the idea of marriage but it's about them recognising that this relationship is in no way a foundation for marriage at this present time.

Originally Posted by francisca

It's just too easy to condemn without really think why the other person just can't undernstand it and even push him away to atheism. Yes I do think that the condemnation did contribute in his decision to join atheism. He would not merely follow gf to join atheism, just the way he would not just merely follow his parents. He decided based on his own considerations, and the way the parents condemn him for catholicism just convince him to join the other clan who do not condemn him because they arent catholics.

He's in a position where he's stuck. He will still have a deep love for his parents but he is reacting against them because he wants to continue to pursue the lifestyle he has chosen, and they refuse to sanction that. Yes, unremitting condemnation may drive him away but I doubt this is the case here as AM and her husband have not stopped showing love towards him. The difference is that they're being firm and refusing to compromise their own values. He's still welcome in the family and in the home, but of course if he wants to live off their provision he has to respect the rules of his parents, something he clearly doesn't want to do. He's angry because he can't have it both ways.

[francisca]

Originally Posted by nmcc89

With respect, I'd disagree. You have made many statements regarding your support for AM and her husband to financially support DS in shacking up with his GF. As I showed previously the catechism clearly states that co-operating in someone else's sin is tantamount to committing the sin yourself (CCC 1868). The church categorically teaches that it is wrong to put yourself in a state of grave sin even for a perceived "greater" benefit (cf. the Church's stance on contraception or even abortion).

I agree, there shouldn't be an emphasis on splitting them up for the sake of DS. There never has though, you've projected that onto the situation. All AM has been doing is asking for advice on how to deal with her rebellious son, not for advice on how to destroy his relationship.

If he is trying to defend his GF then he needs to show more respect to her, he needs to show that she doesn't need to be having sex with him to keep him around, that he loves her for who she is, not what she does.

Yeah sure. And how do you suggest that AM have him do that ? Press the button? If the boy knows that, there'll be no thread for discussion to begin with

I think you're assuming way too much about AM's education of her son. How do you know that they haven't taught him about sex and marriage? In fact, from reading through the previous posts I'd make the initial assumption that they have, as they seem to have provided a particularly loving and caring family life for their children.

On the contrary, I suppose AM has successfully teach him the theories, so he has his own opinion on the matter based on those theories. When it comes to the real thing, his parents suddenly contradict their own theories "well son, this time is an exception. Your sex is nothing, that girl is nothing, just dump her". The son refuse, and he knows that he is better than his best friend who has used her for sex and dumped her. He knows that he can't do that to her again. You see his point of view now? Despite he does those with immaturity, he has his point which the parent fail to address.

I had a good understanding of the Catholic teaching before I started sleeping with my ex gf, unfortunately I consciously decided to disregard it in a pursuit of more immediate gratification.

Please do not project your case onto this case. AM son has seen how his best friend destroyed her, he thinks he can love her better. His parents ask him to leave the girl, he says no. He's willing to go through inconvenience of life for it.

Marriage itself needs to have a good foundation, this relationship is based on lust not mutual respect or love for each other. Hence AM and her husband's reluctance to have a conversation about marriage with their son; it's not about them not supporting the idea of marriage but it's about them recognising that this relationship is in no way a foundation for marriage at this present time.

How do you conclude the matter of others feelings? If they gave up their relationship because of economy reason, how do you know that they will not regret it for the rest of their life later when they are a lot older and married to the people they love less? I mean, how do you as onlookers decides for the couple that they just have to give up their relationship. If you say hormones, that is too shallow reasoning because all sex involve hormones even in adults and old people. And to teach sex as completely separated from love is to suggest immorality in your own teaching.

He's in a position where he's stuck. He will still have a deep love for his parents but he is reacting against them because he wants to continue to pursue the lifestyle he has chosen, and they refuse to sanction that. Yes, unremitting condemnation may drive him away but I doubt this is the case here as AM and her husband have not stopped showing love towards him. The difference is that they're being firm and refusing to compromise their own values. He's still welcome in the family and in the home, but of course if he wants to live off their provision he has to respect the rules of his parents, something he clearly doesn't want to do. He's angry because he can't have it both ways.

[Cristiano]

I think here that people like to jump around trying to rationalize really bad behaviors and blaming those on lack of understanding or application of Catholic teachings. Here I am just going to express my perceptions of the situation and my opinions.

1- The girl is not emotionally functional. That can be see from the description of her previous relationships, from the way she initiated the present relationship and in which direction she is driving it. Seeking attention and approval through sex is highly destructive, she has an extremely negative self image if any at all.

2- The mother of the young girl is not emotionally functional. That can be seen but her actions in support of her daughter choices. Not assuming responsibilities for her daughter's well being managed to put and still puts a young women at risk of abuse from men and self-abuse.

3- The young boy is not emotionally functional and that can be seen by his response to other people's actions. The way he deals with women shows a lack of confidence and independent thinking, it is either what the GF wants or what mom says.

4- Boy's mom has a very solid understanding of what the Church requires for our own good. She has a good idea of how things should work out for a healthy relationship and she has an overall good strategy in place. She also has a major issue with her involvement with her son, it appears that she is the strong personality in the house and that forces the son to act like a weak person when confronted with strongly willed women (e.g. girlfriend). I have the impression that she has taken on the maternal and paternal role for this boy.

4- People that are so emotionally dysfunctional should not be in a relationship because they are going to further destruct each other. Anyone with some common sense would tell them to split, fix their own issues and then if they still have an interest to get back together. However, fixing some of the issues that I see could take years.

5- The fact that the boy and girl slept with each other is problematic because it is obvious that they are just using each other to cope with their insecurities. In this situation sex is the self-destruct button for a relationship.

6- If I were the father of the boy I would explain to my son that women are not a receptacle for semen and for our deepest insecurities, relationship are not about that, and I would just do most of what his parent are doing right now.

7- If I were the father of the girl I would take a shotgun and chase the boy away, move her away from her mother's house, and immediately after that I would start going to family counseling with my daughter and provide the unconditional fatherly love that she deserves and needs.

8- Now I think that the best thing to do would be extremely hard on the boy's parents but probably I would delay the move and start family counseling together with the boy and the girl. They both have to understand that nobody rejects them as individuals but their actions are to be rejected because they are self destructive.

[BlueEyedLady]

8- Now I think that the best thing to do would be extremely hard on the boy's parents but probably I would delay the move and start family counseling together with the boy and the girl. They both have to understand that nobody rejects them as individuals but their actions are to be rejected because they are self destructive.

Yep. Anything they do they need to include the girl in. As far as the son is concerned they are a unit and he will not be receptive if they are treated otherwise. And as destructive as his choices are that is admirable of him.

But pushing them to break up for the sake of his parents is not going to work, nor should it. But that's kind of the feeling I've gotten throughout all of this. That's why I made the comment about jealousy. I.do think that jealousy is a big part of the problem, and I think it goes both ways. I think both AM and the gf are jealous of the love the son has for the.other one.

[nmcc89]

Francisca, you're posting like you know exactly what's going through the poor guys head. You're telling me to stop projecting my experiences onto this case but then doing exactly that yourself. FWIW I'm not attempting to project my own experiences onto DS here, I'm just using them to point out that some of the things you are saying don't make sense.

Originally Posted by francisca

Yeah sure. And how do you suggest that AM have him do that ? Press the button? If the boy knows that, there'll be no thread for discussion to begin with

You started talking about DS "defending" his GF. I see no evidence for this and I'm merely pointing out that if he truly wanted to defend her he wouldn't be acting the way he did.

Originally Posted by francisca

On the contrary, I suppose AM has successfully teach him the theories, so he has his own opinion on the matter based on those theories. When it comes to the real thing, his parents suddenly contradict their own theories "well son, this time is an exception. Your sex is nothing, that girl is nothing, just dump her".

In the context of marriage sex is beautiful, outside marriage it is a desecration of the perfect union of a man and a woman. It doesn't matter how good it feels or the emotions it evokes, it is not a act of goodness because it is taken out of its proper context and it is reduced to an exercise in seeking pleasure. It's not a contradiction to teach of the beauty of sex within marriage whilst condemning the use of sex for purely selfish means.

Originally Posted by francisca

The son refuse, and he knows that he is better than his best friend who has used her for sex and dumped her. He knows that he can't do that to her again. You see his point of view now? Despite he does those with immaturity, he has his point which the parent fail to address.

Please do not project your case onto this case. AM son has seen how his best friend destroyed her, he thinks he can love her better. His parents ask him to leave the girl, he says no. He's willing to go through inconvenience of life for it.

Where's this idea that he's trying to be better than his friend coming from? Again, you're not reading his mind so you wouldn't know that. In fact, like the rest of us, you're not there seeing the relationship first hand. There's only one person here who is and that's AM. I'm not projecting anything, I merely used my example to point out that even if someone does have a good grasp of the theory, it can still be completely disregarded it when faced with other temptations. So this is not a fault of AM or her husband for not educating their son properly as you seem to be suggesting.

Originally Posted by francisca

How do you conclude the matter of others feelings? If they gave up their relationship because of economy reason, how do you know that they will not regret it for the rest of their life later when they are a lot older and married to the people they love less? I mean, how do you as onlookers decides for the couple that they just have to give up their relationship. If you say hormones, that is too shallow reasoning because all sex involve hormones even in adults and old people. And to teach sex as completely separated from love is to suggest immorality in your own teaching.

Well AM did mention that her son can't really explain why he loves his GF, that's a start. Also the fact that she threatened suicide should also ring alarm bells; this girl is emotionally unstable. There's two reasons why marriage is certainly not an option now. I'm not saying they should be torn apart either, you're putting words into my mouth. Of course DS loves his GF but is the relationship healthy and loving, I'm not so sure.

My main problem is that you seem to be attacking AM and her husband's methods at every opportunity. Your solution seems to be to do nothing to address the warped version of love that DS and his GF share, to not hold them accountable as adults by just throwing money at them to support their lifestyle, and as long as they eventually get married everything is ok.

[francisca]

Originally Posted by nmcc89

Francisca, you're posting like you know exactly what's going through the poor guys head.

I don't know. It is only a suppositon, just as much as opinions about him "only want to shack up".

You're telling me to stop projecting my experiences onto this case but then doing exactly that yourself.

Yes. I guess that's fair.

FWIW I'm not attempting to project my own experiences onto DS here, I'm just using them to point out that some of the things you are saying don't make sense.

I guess what I wanted to say was that your case may not be similar to AM son's.

Where's this idea that he's trying to be better than his friend coming from? Again, you're not reading his mind so you wouldn't know that.

Well the boy stop befriending his best friend. Im not saying I know, but you might want to re-visit the previous thread.

In fact, like the rest of us, you're not there seeing the relationship first hand. There's only one person here who is and that's AM.

Only the two knows the relationship first hand.

I merely used my example to point out that even if someone does have a good grasp of the theory, it can still be completely disregarded it when faced with other temptations. So this is not a fault of AM or her husband for not educating their son properly as you seem to be suggesting.

I said AM and her husband has raised him well so that now he has his own opinion that it needs to be taken seriously.

Well AM did mention that her son can't really explain why he loves his GF, that's a start. Also the fact that she threatened suicide should also ring alarm bells; this girl is emotionally unstable. There's two reasons why marriage is certainly not an option now. I'm not saying they should be torn apart either, you're putting words into my mouth. Of course DS loves his GF but is the relationship healthy and loving, I'm not so sure.

My main problem is that you seem to be attacking AM and her husband's methods at every opportunity.

Are you AM's defense? This is a discussion. Let her speak for herself. Sheesh.

Your solution seems to be to do nothing to address the warped version of love that DS and his GF share, to not hold them accountable as adults

Yeah, AM wants to hold them accountable as adults by witholding the money he earn from his part time job, strike him from his health insurance, and make sure he cant go to work without any vehicle. As far as I can see such is just to control him to make sure he will succumb to their power, not to teach him to be responsible of anything at all.

By the way, If the son were a responsible mature man, then we have no thread to discuss. So just do not mention about the boy being irresponsible, immature and other bla bla bla. Just see if the adults here are really adult enough first.

by just throwing money at them to support their lifestyle, and as long as they eventually get married everything is ok.

I have never suggest throwing money just like that. The boy is entering his legal age. He is not ready, it is parents job to teach him to be ready. The transition doesn't happen just like pressing a "beep" button. If parents only busy trying to decide his life for him, they has no business getting him ready neither they concern about him being responsible. Parents only want to get him "relieved" from gf, and "get away with it" so he can comeback to the place provided for him by parents so he can fulfull parents dreams about his life.

[nmcc89]

Originally Posted by francisca

Yeah, AM wants to hold them accountable as adults by witholding the money he earn from his part time job, strike him from his health insurance, and make sure he cant go to work without any vehicle. As far as I can see such is just to control him to make sure he will succumb to their power, not to teach him to be responsible of anything at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the money they are witholding is their own money ($1500), which they put into a college fund for him. The money that he earned himself they're quite prepared to give him. Regarding the health insurance they're not striking him off it, as far as I can tell it's just a fact that he'll only be covered in the area they live, so if he decides to not move with them he won't be covered unless he can to their area for medical help. Again, please correct me as I don't have a good grasp of how health insurance works; I'm from the UK so I'm lucky enough to have the NHS which provides free healthcare to all citizens.

In my opinion the decisions made are fair enough; he's been given a simple choice between living under their roof in their family (therefore receiving the intrinsic financial support he gets from that - food/college fees/healthcare/transport etc) or living under his own roof and leaving his family, thus providing for himself and hence rejecting those benefits. Unfortunately he is choosing the latter so he doesn't receive the support for college from his parents or grandparents and he's also forfeiting his healthcare since his parents' policy doesn't cover him 4 hours away.

Originally Posted by francisca

Just see if the adults here are really adult enough first.

That's a low blow. As you said though, I'm not here to defend others...

Originally Posted by francisca

I have never suggest throwing money just like that. The boy is entering his legal age. He is not ready, it is parents job to teach him to be ready. The transition doesn't happen just like pressing a "beep" button. If parents only busy trying to decide his life for him, they has no business getting him ready neither they concern about him being responsible. Parents only want to get him "relieved" from gf, and "get away with it" so he can comeback to the place provided for him by parents so he can fulfull parents dreams about his life.

I'd argue that you're making assumptions here, especially the last sentence. Again, though, I suppose this is a comment that would be best responded to by AM if she chooses.

[TheRealJuliane]

Originally Posted by francisca

I have never suggest throwing money just like that. The boy is entering his legal age. He is not ready, it is parents job to teach him to be ready. The transition doesn't happen just like pressing a "beep" button. If parents only busy trying to decide his life for him, they has no business getting him ready neither they concern about him being responsible. Parents only want to get him "relieved" from gf, and "get away with it" so he can comeback to the place provided for him by parents so he can fulfull parents dreams about his life.

His parents thought they HAD taught him to be ready. He himself was headed to college; had scholarships, had a direction. He was taught about premarital sex, what not to do. If he now chooses to change and do a 180, and ignore everything his parents have taught him these 18 years, how is that the parents' responsibility??

You accuse others of making assumptions about this young man, but your last sentence really says it all to me. You believe that it is AM and her husband who have been forcing their son to fulfill their own dreams. That's really insulting. And you are assuming that they only want him to "get away with it," when AM has said all along that what he is doing with his GF is wrong in any case.

[tgrath]

Originally Posted by Cristiano

It is time to cut all the contacts for a while. Do not get into a fight, just stop communicating with him. It is time for him to experience the pros and cons of true independence. If he wants to call you then answer in a polite and gentle manner but do not make any offer of any kind. If he asks for something tell him that you will consider his request and that you let him know; however, reassure him that your statement really means that you want to think about it and it is not a way to reject his request.

"considering" a request in this manner lacks integrity, IMHO. If you want a better relationship with anyone, integrity must be present, or it won't happen.

[Cristiano]

Originally Posted by tgrath

"considering" a request in this manner lacks integrity, IMHO. If you want a better relationship with anyone, integrity must be present, or it won't happen.

Could you please explain where the lack of integrity is? In considering someone's request and admitting to the fact that they are going to do it? I do not understand at all your point.

[francisca]

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

His parents thought they HAD taught him to be ready. He himself was headed to college; had scholarships, had a direction. He was taught about premarital sex, what not to do. If he now chooses to change and do a 180, and ignore everything his parents have taught him these 18 years, how is that the parents' responsibility??

It was only a plan. The reality now is different. It is not the parents responsibility to live the boys life. Parents responsibility is to guide him to find his own.

You accuse others of making assumptions about this young man, but your last sentence really says it all to me. You believe that it is AM and her husband who have been forcing their son to fulfill their own dreams. That's really insulting. And you are assuming that they only want him to "get away with it," when AM has said all along that what he is doing with his GF is wrong in any case.

You don't have to feel insulted, Real. This is a discussion. Let AM speak for herself.

[ArkansasMom]

Cristiano, you nailed it! I agree with you on every point. One problem is that there is no man in this situation for GF: Dad is totally uninvolved in GFs life.

I will give you an update, and then I will address some points brought up by Francesca in a second post.

Last week, I gave DS a scrapbook/photo album that I made of his high school years. I made him a nice album of all of the things we did as a family/he did with other organizations/school activities during his four years of high school. It was a sweet album, he looked at it with us and then hugged it to his chest and took it to his room to look at it some more. A lot of family pictures, pictures of extended family . . . we have always been so close as a family and done so many fun things together . . . at least, until last fall, when there was really very little to add to the album. Probably 30 pages for the first 3 years, then maybe 3 for his senior year, as everything stopped and DS pulled away and fell apart.
DS took the album to his GFs house and showed it to everyone at the party that we weren't invited to. That evening, he agreed to come home so that we could have a family dinner/graduation party. DH cooked steak, we had a great couple of hours at home, with DS playing piano and guitar while DH cooked and I worked on getting everyone's laundry folded and ready for upcoming stuff. As a graduation present, DH and I gave DS the car he has been driving. We did it for several reasons: we want him to have reliable transportation when we go, we want to make sure he can work, we want to keep his college savings $$ intact AND we wanted him to experience 'Grace' firsthand. We also told him that we are holding $2500 in an education IRA for him for college.
Later, when we were sitting at the table, DS told me that everyone at the party loved the album. I noted that the album went to the party, but DH and I weren't invited. I asked him who made the guest list. He said, "I did." So, it was our son who did not want us at the party. I didn't say a word, what could I say?
About an hour later, as we were all getting ready for bed, he said good night to everyone, picked up his backpack and started to leave. DH asked him where he was going, he said to his GFs. DH reminded him that this was DH's last night at home, he was leaving for his new job the next day. It would be our last night at home as a family, in the home where we have raised our son for 16 years! He said, "Really, Dad? Do we really have to do this?" We just left the room and DS left in the car we had just given him. He didn't even say goodbye to his sister. She called him, crying, and he said that he's see her sometime soon. DS is on a trip with an organization he belongs to until next Saturday. He said he's moving out a few weeks after he returns from this trip.
DH started his new job today. Our house sold last weekend.

[ArkansasMom]

Francesca, let me clarify.
1. Purity/chastity/sexuality: We have trained DS as much as we could through the years in these areas. We spent countless hours in these discussions and our parish priest engaged both of our teenagers in lessons, as well. We asked him to wait until he was 17-18 to date so that he would be more mature and prepared, both for himself and the young women he dated. He was dedicated to purity and professed his his committment to these principles with the GF that broke his heart. Clearly, he has rejected those teachings (in his defense, he says it is because he is in love), in order to justify being physical with his GF.
2. Personality changes: Our concerns, and, indeed, my original post and that entire thread discussed my feelings about how DS had changed since meeting GF and began pursuing sex with her. He has compromised his value system, faith life, family connection, his personal reputation, his relationship with God, and delayed/compromised HIS original plan for his life. This was done through rebellion, anger, lying, manipulating, sneaking, etc. He has done countless things to distance himself from us, hurt us, etc.
3. DS & GF relationship: This is not a mature relationship. It is full of drama, they are most connected when they are rebelling against us, it is grounded in hormones, drama, and sex.
4. Breaking up: We are not hoping that they break up because of us. DH and I have been very involved with our children, but we listened to their dreams and worked to help them achieve them. Their dreams are not ours. My dream was to have a family and children and then to help those children become who God and they, as individuals, wanted to become. I didn't drive my DD to her gymnastics team practices 5x a week, 2 hours round trip for EIGHT years (yes, 8 . . . and she was in tumbling, dance, and drama as well) for ME . . . I did it because her dream was to be the best gymnast she could be. DS wanted to swim 5x a week, 1 hour round trip, plus summer practices, become an Eagle Scout, participate in plays, take music lessons . . . for ME. I didn't want to swim, HE did. We sacrificed personal time, $$, etc., for their dreams. Until 7 months ago, DS had dreams. Then he threw them out the window to pursue GF. Sure, it is his choice/his new dream. But it's not the one he planned on for all of those years, and it's not going to bring him closer to his dream of marital stability, children, and financial independence. I'm defensive of those dreams for HIM.
5. Guiding DS: There is no way that we can 'guide DS to find his own life.' He won't allow us to teach him anything. All of the old teachings are gone and we are completely unable to guide him in any way.
6. Finances: Hello? We offered to pay for his tuition/r&B for 4 years of college? We are moving, and in the U.S. that means that, because we will be moving to another state, our car insurance can no longer extend to him unless he is a full time student who lives in our home when he's not at college. Our health insurance will be available only in our area. Our cell phones will change to our new area code to accomodate my husband's work. Really, it is all a moot point: he wants to be on his own, paying his own expenses, so we shouldn't pay for any of his expenses, right? The money DS put into savings was part of an agreement we had: we will pay car insurance and gas $$ if you put 1/2 of your money earned in a part-time job into savings. We paid $2,000 in expenses from last Sept. to this April so that he could put $3,000 away. That was the agreement. We're holding him to that so that, in the end, he will at least have some college to fall back on/continue. We have trained him as much as we could at every step. If he would listen to us, we would continue to do so. I created a sample budget to show him, realistically, what his costs will be when he goes out on his own. He said it was wrong, his GF's mom said he could do it on 1/2 of that. It's impossible. Even if he works full time, making minimum wage, for the next 6 months, he will earn $7,300 . . . $6205 after taxes, or $1,000 a month. I have no idea how she things it can happen unless there is some way he can apply for State of Federal aid. And that may be his intent, I don't know.
7. Transition to adulthood: We didn't push the 'beep' button, DS did. He is the one who has to get out NOW . . . except that he doesn't have any money and only meager ways of getting it. Our family is moving: he can come with us and benefit from all of the things he has so far. It is his choice to go out on his own. It is his choice to do it this quickly. It is his choice to do it, knowing very little about costs, and having limited opportunities to generate the $$. Keep in mind, this was HIS choice, not ours.
8. We don't want him to just have sex and leave GF. We want him to stop having sex, we want him to not move into her mom's basement so he can be close to have more sex, we don't want him to move in with GF. We want him to get an education/certification/training and THEN marry, start a family, and provide financially for that family.
9. It is true that only GF and DS are seeing the 'relationship' first hand. What I am seeing are the extreme changes in DS's behavior, personality, future plans, faith life, and relationship with his family and the fallout that has occurred in each area.
Seems like I keep repeating this!

[TheRealJuliane]

You will only get more responses from Francisca, who will argue with every point you've laid out. Somehow, she's taken a stand and this is the hill she's going to die on...Hmmmm...reminds me somewhat of your son... But she's a total stranger to you, your family, and your circumstances. Yet she keeps posting again and again and again. I don't think you were looking for a debate when you originally came here, but support, and people who could understand at least some of what you've been through since your son took up with this girl. You've been very charitable.

The wheels are turning. Your son has turned away. Whatever happens now, happens. He is choosing it. He gets to own the consequences.

[ArkansasMom]

Real, in your opinion, based on the course your son went through, what do you think happens next in this situation?