Saint Ignatius of Antioch and the Catholic Church

raulbrey · #1 May 21, '12, 8:58 am

I'm not sure if this is the place to post so here it goes.

I just came across some Saint Ignatius of Antioch letter to the Smyrnaeans where he talks about everything that we have in our Catholic church. This was written somehwere around 100AD!

I came across this thru God's grace and not by any direction from anyone at my church, which is why I'm turning to yall for help and guidance.

Why is this not taught to us by those at our church? Should information like this be spread to the Catholic community so WE can be better informed and prepared against our "skeptic brethren"? I think I'm going to start printing stuff like this out and handing it out after mass. Hopefluuy the priest doesn't get upset with me and forbid me from doing it.

I bet there is so much more out there, where else can i find this info?

Thanks and may blessing,
Raul

piejesu · #2 May 21, '12, 9:45 am

One place you can go is: http://www.newadvent.org/

Then in the upper right hand corner click on "Fathers".

smp501 · #3 May 21, '12, 9:59 am

Raulbrey, would you mind posting the link?

michaelmas · #4 May 21, '12, 10:10 am

St. Ignatius of Antioch is also the same person who modeled the church hierarchy on the Roman Empires which eliminated women from positions of authority within the church.

Disappointing.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

raulbrey · #5 May 21, '12, 11:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelmas

St. Ignatius of Antioch is also the same person who modeled the church hierarchy on the Roman Empires which eliminated women from positions of authority within the church.

Disappointing.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have no clue. I'm to new at this.

raulbrey · #6 May 21, '12, 11:38 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by smp501

Raulbrey, would you mind posting the link?

here is where I read this
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm

DavidFilmer · #7 May 21, '12, 12:08 pm

Catholics are woefully uninformed about the rich treasure to be found in the writings of the Early Church Fathers (often called ECFs on this forum).

You can read the complete texts of most ECFs in the 28-volume (!) series "Early Church Fathers" (Phillip Schaff, editor). Schaff is a protestant - much of the commentary is written from a protestant perspective, but the translation of the works themselves has not been tampered with. The collection is out of copyright protection - you can read it online (free) here. Some additional works can be found in the collection edited by Roger Pearse, found here.

An indispensable resource for Catholic study of the ECFs is "Faith of the Early Fathers" by William Jurgens. These books contain excerpts of the ECFs, and (most importantly) contain a "doctrinal index" listing a wide range of Catholic teachings and which writings support (or oppose) them (yes, it also lists opposing Fathers - the ECFs were rarely unanimous). Jurgens gives a short biography of each author and introductory information for each text.

This material is available only in printed form - all three volumes are currently available on Amazon for $37.45. Individual volumes are about $15 - Volume 1 is (by far) the one I use the most (it cites the earliest ECFs).

Of course, this forum is a great place to discuss the ECFs. Unlike the typical Catholic layperson, you will find many people here who are very familiar with these writings and are very happy to discuss them.

One thing is important to note: the Church did not have a recognized Canon of the New Testament until the early Fifth Century. Before that, there was really no such thing that could be called a Christian Bible. Thus, these Fathers were writing before the Church had a Bible!

raulbrey · #8 May 21, '12, 12:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidFilmer

Catholics are woefully uninformed about the rich treasure to be found in the writings of the Early Church Fathers (often called ECFs on this forum).

You can read the complete texts of most ECFs in the 28-volume (!) series "Early Church Fathers" (Phillip Schaff, editor). Schaff is a protestant - much of the commentary is written from a protestant perspective, but the translation of the works themselves has not been tampered with. The collection is out of copyright protection - you can read it online (free) here. Some additional works can be found in the collection edited by Roger Pearse, found here.

An indispensable resource for Catholic study of the ECFs is "Faith of the Early Fathers" by William Jurgens. These books contain excerpts of the ECFs, and (most importantly) contain a "doctrinal index" listing a wide range of Catholic teachings and which writings support (or oppose) them (yes, it also lists opposing Fathers - the ECFs were rarely unanimous). Jurgens gives a short biography of each author and introductory information for each text.

This material is available only in printed form - all three volumes are currently available on Amazon for $37.45. Individual volumes are about $15 - Volume 1 is (by far) the one I use the most (it cites the earliest ECFs).

Of course, this forum is a great place to discuss the ECFs. Unlike the typical Catholic layperson, you will find many people here who are very familiar with these writings and are very happy to discuss them.

One thing is important to note: the Church did not have a recognized Canon of the New Testament until the early Fifth Century. Before that, there was really no such thing that could be called a Christian Bible. Thus, these Fathers were writing before the Church had a Bible!

YES! Thank you brother. This is what I seek, knowledge.

Todd Easton · #9 May 21, '12, 1:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulbrey

I just came across some Saint Ignatius of Antioch letter to the Smyrnaeans where he talks about everything that we have in our Catholic church. This was written somehwere around 100AD!

You are not alone in your assessment of his letters. Cardinal Newman said, "The whole system of Catholic doctrine may be discovered at least in outline in ... his seven epistles." (Cardinal Newman cited in New Saint Joseph Weekday Missal, Vol. II, Catholic Book Publishing Co., 2002, p. 597, Oct. 17-St. Ignatius of Antioch, Bishop and Martyr)

Quote:

Why is this not taught to us by those at our church?

Why? The Catholic Church does what it can but there are so many saints, some of them extremely prolific writers, that it is difficult to give any particular saint and his writings much attention. Nevertheless, St. Ignatius of Antioch is optionally mentioned among the martyrs by name at Mass in Eucharistic Prayer 1, as Ignatius. So, most Catholics have probably heard his name before. As suggested by my citation above, St. Ignatius of Antioch's own memorial day is celebrated by the Church on October 17. Anyone attending Mass on that day of the year or following along with a weekday missal at home would be introduced to him. Short selections from the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch are used in the Office of Readings in the Catholic Church's Liturgy of Hours. In addition, St. Ignatius of Antioch is quoted numerous times in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

I agree with you; ideally, a Catholic education ought to include some exposure to the writings of the Fathers of the Church, especially the earliest ones, the Apostolic Fathers, such as St. Ignatius of Antioch. The writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch and the other Apostolic Fathers and the writings of St. Justin Martyr, who died about A.D. 155, were instrumental in my own conversion to the Catholic faith.

raulbrey · #10 May 21, '12, 8:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Easton

were instrumental in my own conversion to the Catholic faith.

This is where I find myself. I'm hoping to learn much more so I can teach my friends and family. I want to be well versed so I can then with confidence defend and profess my faith.

Theophorus · #11 May 22, '12, 1:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulbrey

I'm not sure if this is the place to post so here it goes.

I just came across some Saint Ignatius of Antioch letter to the Smyrnaeans where he talks about everything that we have in our Catholic church. This was written somehwere around 100AD!

I came across this thru God's grace and not by any direction from anyone at my church, which is why I'm turning to yall for help and guidance.

Why is this not taught to us by those at our church? Should information like this be spread to the Catholic community so WE can be better informed and prepared against our "skeptic brethren"? I think I'm going to start printing stuff like this out and handing it out after mass. Hopefluuy the priest doesn't get upset with me and forbid me from doing it.

I bet there is so much more out there, where else can i find this info?

Thanks and may blessing,
Raul

We have such a rich treasury in our catholic faith it is a shame that people don't know it. At the same time I would speak to your priest before you hand such stuff put so that you can cooperate in spreading knowledge of the faith. Justin Martyr gives some of the most ancient accounts of the Eucharist that we have, he is also worth a look.

God bless

Theophorus · #12 May 22, '12, 1:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelmas

St. Ignatius of Antioch is also the same person who modeled the church hierarchy on the Roman Empires which eliminated women from positions of authority within the church.

Disappointing.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Really where, and in what capacity?
I personally can't imagine this St. Ignatius modelling anything good on the Roman Empire but all the same I would like to see the reference.

**Church Militant** · #13 May 22, '12, 3:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by smp501

Raulbrey, would you mind posting the link?

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

And if you like this, there is plenty more, like, The Martyrdom of Polycarp

And it all can be found at Catholic First Information Center, Church Fathers Index

Ignatius was invaluable in my blog article The Eucharist IS Scriptural.

**Church Militant** · #14 May 22, '12, 3:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelmas

St. Ignatius of Antioch is also the same person who modeled the church hierarchy on the Roman Empires which eliminated women from positions of authority within the church.

Disappointing.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Citation of source, because I don't think that is correct.

Women are not ordained because there were no women apostles and so the church has no authority to change that today. If you find that "disappointing" then you'll need to take that up with the Almighty.

Furthermore, what you say is not true, because there are many positions of authority where women serve the church in, but if you're looking for ordination...it's just not gonna happen.
Inter Insigniores

Ignatius · #15 May 22, '12, 7:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulbrey

I'm not sure if this is the place to post so here it goes.

I just came across some Saint Ignatius of Antioch letter to the Smyrnaeans where he talks about everything that we have in our Catholic church. This was written somehwere around 100AD!

I came across this thru God's grace and not by any direction from anyone at my church, which is why I'm turning to yall for help and guidance.

Why is this not taught to us by those at our church?

It is, and many other Truths, but it's like bread at the dinner table. It is so common and always there so that no one notices it.