Dolan: Obama Administration Doesn't Understand Our 'Horror' Over Mandate Exemption

[Rich Olszewski]

Originally Posted by rlg94086

You seriously thought you gave up your religious freedom when you joined the Air Force?

Where did I say that I gave up my religious freedom when I joined the Air Force? Cite the post, please.?

[qui est ce]

Originally Posted by Nec5

They understand the church's "horror" over the mandate exemption. They simply believe they are right and the church should get with the program. Giving them cover by arguing that they simply don't understand is naive and is like believing Iran will stop brutalizing it's people if only they understood about human rights.

Once you allow redefining traditional meanings to words, there is no ending it:

Redefining marriage
Redefining who is a minister
Redefining what is a religious institution
Redefining Freedom of Religion to Freedom of Worship
Redefining what constitutes health care

Who determines these redefinitions? And those who disagree with these redefinitions are labelled intolerant haters and bigots.

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski

Where did I say that I gave up my religious freedom when I joined the Air Force? Cite the post, please.?

In your answer to my question. I provided a citation of such in my previous post - including my question and your answer. Try reading the posts.

Me: "am I to understand that you believe that any citizen of the United States who receives money from the government gives up their religious freedom? They are "taking the king's schilling, are they not?"

You: "I certainly believed that when I "took the shilling" as an Air Force officer, I was its man."

[Rich Olszewski]

Originally Posted by rlg94086

In your answer to my question. I provided a citation of such in my previous post - including my question and your answer. Try reading the posts.

Me: "am I to understand that you believe that any citizen of the United States who receives money from the government gives up their religious freedom? They are "taking the king's schilling, are they not?"

You: "I certainly believed that when I "took the shilling" as an Air Force officer, I was its man."

I stick to that last statement. All servicemen and women give up some of their rights when they take the oath and when they take the Government's dollar. Freedom of speech is limited (no overt criticism of one's superiors), freedom of movement (you go where they send you), and yes, even freedom of religion (I'm a Catholic, it's a sin to miss Mass on Sundays, so I demand a Catholic priest while I'm out here in the field no matter what); I give up my right to do whatever I like (I must obey orders) and there are other freedoms that are given up while one is following the Flag.

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski

I stick to that last statement. All servicemen and women give up some of their rights when they take the oath and when they take the Government's dollar. Freedom of speech is limited (no overt criticism of one's superiors), freedom of movement (you go where they send you), and yes, even freedom of religion (I'm a Catholic, it's a sin to miss Mass on Sundays, so I demand a Catholic priest while I'm out here in the field no matter what); I give up my right to do whatever I like (I must obey orders) and there are other freedoms that are given up while one is following the Flag.

So, now that you've read my question, you believe that any citizen of the United States who receives money from the government gives up their religious freedom?

Are you standing by that?

[Rich Olszewski]

Originally Posted by rlg94086

So, now that you've read my question, you believe that any citizen of the United States who receives money from the government gives up their religious freedom?

Are you standing by that?

I gave you my answer in my last post. Read it! Surely, you are capable of understanding it.

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski

I gave you my answer in my last post. Read it! Surely, you are capable of understanding it.

I do understand it. It's a non-answer. You answered regarding people in the military, which is only one segment of citizens who receive money from the government.

[Rich Olszewski]

Originally Posted by rlg94086

I do understand it. It's a non-answer. You answered regarding people in the military, which is only one segment of citizens who receive money from the government.

I was referring to the military because we were talking about taking the shilling. Civilians can do whatever they please.

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski

I was referring to the military because we were talking about taking the shilling. Civilians can do whatever they please.

So, you are saying that civilians don't receive money from the government?

[Rich Olszewski]

Originally Posted by rlg94086

So, you are saying that civilians don't receive money from the government?

No.

But, I'm sorry. I can't lead you by the hand through all this. Do try to figure it out yourself.

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski

No.

But, I'm sorry. I can't lead you by the hand through all this. Do try to figure it out yourself.

Now, you are just being rude.

Basically, what you are supporting is a double standard. We have Freedom of Religion. Civilians who receive money from the government are, according to you, able to maintain that freedom. Civilian organizations who receive money from the government, are not able to maintain their freedoms.

Now, I know that the Supreme Court ruled that companies are extended the same Freedom of Speech rights as civilians. Why is it that civilian organizations are not extended the same rights? What is it about Catholic Charities that is different than a corporations and citizens, when it comes to the Bill of Rights?

[Rich Olszewski]

Originally Posted by rlg94086

Now, you are just being rude.

I expected you to be able to figure this out without my help.

Basically, what you are supporting is a double standard. We have Freedom of Religion. Civilians who receive money from the government are, according to you, able to maintain that freedom. Civilian organizations who receive money from the government, are not able to maintain their freedoms.

I don't think that your statement applies to all civilian organizations that receive government money.

Now, I know that the Supreme Court ruled that companies are extended the same Freedom of Speech rights as civilians. Why is it that civilian organizations are not extended the same rights? What is it about Catholic Charities that is different than a corporations and citizens, when it comes to the Bill of Rights?

I don't know.

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski

I don't know.

Me neither.

I was hoping you would, since you have studied a little bit of law.

Bottom line, I don't believe that religious freedom should be curtailed. It's an important freedom that our ancestors spilled blood over.

[Rich Olszewski]

Originally Posted by rlg94086

I was hoping you would, since you have studied a little bit of law.

I'm not up on civil rights law. I don't like to make conjectures when it comes to what is law and what isn't.

Bottom line, I don't believe that religious freedom should be curtailed. It's an important freedom that our ancestors spilled blood over.

Agree with your first sentence. The second I find irrelevant.

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski

Where did I say that I gave up my religious freedom when I joined the Air Force? Cite the post, please.?

GOTCHA! You couldn't have served in the Air Force, because there WAS no Air Force in the War of 1812!