Why Does The Catholic Church Do Such A Poor Job Teaching Its Members? - Page 3

marlap2 · #31 May 25, '12, 7:33 pm

Poor job?

I'm having a hard time finding an empty parking spot any day of the week at my parish, and we have a school, a library, a full church, several meeting rooms, a youth building with 4 meeting rooms upstairs, a convent and a basement. No room for a bible study meeting. All being used up in various cathetical or prayer services or AA meetings, or or or. And you don't want to make noise in the Perpetual Adoration Room. It's full of people praying with Jesus, sigh. The bible study I was facilitating was too small so I ended up having it at my house. There's other bible studies going on during other days of the week. We have RCIA, RCIT (for teens) prayer groups, Couples for Christ, Teens for Christ, Singles for Christ, Handmaids of the Lord, Prayer groups, and Marian Devotions, The Catholicism Series video for 10 weeks, and I hear there is going to be a Coming Home group too. The youth group is only 150 kids. And they are always hanging around, laughing and dancing around the youth centre. Go figure. They are practicing for the Marian Procession this weekend so there's even more kids showing up every day. The 200 newly confirmed will probably take up valuable space too on Sunday during the Procession. Guess I'll have to park down the street. Sigh again.

Basically if your church needs more resources, learn, talk to your priest and do it! 60 is young, for heaven's sake. There is no word for retirement in the bible. Like they said in that movie.... Build it and they will come.... lol

And I agree with all the other people who have already spoken about all the valuable resources available online. PODCASTS are amazing as well. My poor little Ipod is flooded with them and I listen to Catholic resources all day long while I work.

BCRaven05 · #32 May 25, '12, 7:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkollwitz

Adult Catholics must act like adults when it comes to their faith and not loll around waiting to be coddled and taught like 3rd graders. Adults learn all kinds of stuff on their own all the time because they are interested in knowing more. So I would ask the question:

Why do lazy Catholics blame their own indolence on the Church?

I can relate to this. In my experience it is easy to blame the Church for a lack of education or options provided, but with a liitle effort and talking to the priest, you can find many resources (I know, because I recently started getting off my rear and started to actively seek the Word of God). Realistically, the Bible is the most owned book in the world and the least read book in the world. My wife and I are currently in The Great Adventure bible study course, and it has been wonderful.

That said, I grew up in a Catholic family and went to Catholic grade school and high school and am embarassed at how little I learned or retained. About a month or two ago some family members were discussing Fatima, and I (horrifyingly embarassed) hadn't even heard of this. I admit, I was not much of a practicing Catholic prior to about a month and a half ago where I have really come back to the faith and just have a real hunger to learn more about my faith and am just so invigorated.

So I can see both sides of this argument. I think the Catholic school system could do a better job of teaching our youth, especially at the higher grade levels where more mature Catholic themes can be discussed. This is just my opinion, but I also can't blame (and am not blaming) the Catholic church for my ignorance and laziness... I am just happy and excited that God lit a fire inside of me to really learn the Word of God and follow him more closely.

kkollwitz · #33 May 26, '12, 7:37 am

"I am just happy and excited that God lit a fire inside of me to really learn the Word of God and follow him more closely."

Me, too...why it's like being born again or something!

**guanophore** · #34 May 26, '12, 11:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightranger

I don't think The Church neglects it my friend.

It's just that Church teaching, when truly lived out, is a heavy burden to bear.

If you are young, married and with a good job, you are fulfilled. The burden (or "yolk" as Christ put it), is light. When things don't work out that way, the burden becomes heavy. Indeed, too heavy for some to bear.
So I think it becomes a question of circumstance.

You are right that taking up our cross and carrying it is difficult to bear. But you are not right about the nature of fulfillment. There are plenty of people who are married with a good job that are not fulfilled.

What makes the burden light is when the yoke "fits". We are to be pulling the weight with Jesus yoked next to us. That is why nothing that happens to us is ever too much for us to bear. It is not we who bear it, but Christ within us. Joy is not a question of circumstance, as God can cause us to be fulfilled in every circumstance.

The reason he allows us to fall upon hard times is so that He can deepen our relationship with Him.

Kenneth Jones · #35 May 27, '12, 1:19 am

JMJ

It's great to read about folks wanting to know more about their Faith. I count myself in that number. Getting a handle on what happened, and how to prevent it, takes some understanding of process.

I remember reading somewhere the phrase, "From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations."

Consider how my grandfather was a pauper, my father found success but I am, alas, again a pauper. Nothing my father did, however successful he was, seemed to have prepared me for the struggle to be successful. The reason for that might very well be that he simply didn't know what to teach me, or how to teach it.

In fact, if he had not found it necessary to study for success himself, he might not even have realized that such effort was required at all.

Not having an understanding of the reasons makes the action less significant, perhaps even to the point of being arbitrary, or even undesirable in changed circumstances. (How many of us have said to our parents that they Just Don't Understand at one time or another?)

Indeed, we might not have shared the same world view with our kids, but there certainly were more points of agreement than not, at least seen in retrospect. The trouble with passing along any traditional thought (how to succeed in the family business like your old man did--and how to keep it successful, for example) requires not only that we pass along the details, but that we instruct how to continue to pass along the details, and that Passing Along is a part of the teaching / learning process.

Let's see if I can make this clear. Not only do we have the obligation to pass along our Faith (including its small-t traditions) but we have to explain that our children have to do it too, when it's their turn. "Pay attention, you're responsible for telling your own children about this."

A strong faith life means more than regular attendance at Mass, for one example; it means not only explaining to the youngsters what we're doing, and why they're going with us even if they would rather sleep late, but it also means that (likely later in their lives) we must return to the lesson and add in the next part--that they need to explain the actions, the behaviors, not just demand them when they are old enough to be parents themselves. Identifying students as teachers-in-training is critical. We grown-ups must teach the how part as soon as it can be absorbed, and then we must teach the why part when it's also able to be understood.

Did any of this make sense? Life training, faith training is recursive, circular, not linear.

In the terms of our Faith, the problem is called "poorly catechized" but while that is a reasonable explanation, it does little to solve the problem or to prevent its recurrence. We need to realize that we (you and me, brothers and sisters) have to pass on the fullness of the Faith, not just the rubrics.

Ken

kkollwitz · #36 May 27, '12, 5:46 am

"Pay attention, you're responsible for telling your own children about this." Yes. I am very explicit about this in my 6th-grade class:

"He established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers to teach to their children; 6 that the next generation might know them, the children yet unborn, and arise and tell them to their children"

**guanophore** · #37 May 27, '12, 9:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkollwitz

Adult Catholics must act like adults when it comes to their faith and not loll around waiting to be coddled and taught like 3rd graders. Adults learn all kinds of stuff on their own all the time because they are interested in knowing more. So I would ask the question:

Why do lazy Catholics blame their own indolence on the Church?

This is very true. I was very poorly catechized, and after I was confirmed I developed a craving for the Scripture. I ended up in a Baptist bible study and wandered away from the faith for 20 some years. During part of that time I blamed the Church for not telling me the Truth,but I never studied my faith until I got into a Protestant Seminary, and discovered there were Catholic resources. Duh!

I did have a very 3rd grade attitude that I should be spoon fed.

CalCatholic · #38 May 27, '12, 10:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by T More

As a new convert, I look at it a bit differently. The Church has an embarrassment of riches for us to learn the faith. 2000 years worth. My question was, and is, why more Catholics don't take take advantage of what they have. I have a few theories on this, but I don't want to derail the thread.

I agree!
I grew up with no religion in my life, went to secular schools (the only time that God was ever mentioned in my life was in 'The Pledge of Allegiance'). I did not discover Christianity until I was 47 years old (thanks to the Holy Spirit). So how do other Catholics who were exposed all their lives to teachings of the Church (in some way or form) strengthen their faith and knowledge of the Catholic Church? The same way that converts to the Church do; through exploring your faith, reading of Church history, the Early Church Fathers, read the Bible with good Catholic commentary, attend Bible study, take classes, etc. And most importantly, pray to God for faith and knowledge!

iloveangels · #39 May 27, '12, 10:48 am

The Catholic church does an absolutely terrible job of catechesis, but it's not much of a priority, either for the Church at large, the parishes or the individual Catholics.

Lots of talk to the contrary because no one wants to admit they're a slob, but most Catholics are not really serious about it. They think they already know everything that matters. Or they don't care because they think they had no say in becoming Catholic in the first place. Sad but true.

People who want to understand what they need to live a Christian life usually need to go through a perilous do-it-yourself program which is usually only partly effective, but it's better than nothing.

kkollwitz · #40 May 27, '12, 11:04 am

All true. When my wife and I first began as catechists teaching RCIA in 1999, we had to jettison all of the RCIA materials we were given; and with the pastor's permission write a syllabus from scratch. The only way out of this intergenerational poor-catechesis churn is for motivated adults to self-catechize, then get into the classrooms and teach the kids a robust and orthodox faith.

MHT32 · #41 May 27, '12, 3:56 pm

I think its not that the Church is doing a bad job, I think its more of the fact that some people just arent interested in learning about the faith, especially the young church. If, somehow, a majority of the young church would be willing to learn and live the faith, then the Church would be excellent at educating its members of the faith. In K-8 at a Catholic school, I learned very little about the faith (I learned the sacraments, commandments, beatitudes, etc.) but didnt really learn anything in depth (Why something is a sin and where in scripture it shows it is a sin, evidence for certain doctrines in the bible, etc.) I had to learn that on my own. Everyone else I knew (whose parents weren't devout) didn't really care for learning about the faith. Blame the younger members, not the institution.

Diana Catherine · #42 May 27, '12, 6:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by number2wilkins

as one waiting for RCIA to begin, i am OVERWHELMED with how much there is to learn about Catholicism!

it's like trying to sip water from a fire hose

i am having a blast reading everything i can get my hands on and bothering my priests with questions..

wish i had more hours in the day to study

Welcome. Glad you are here. You are right, there is a lot to learn.

Diana Catherine · #43 May 27, '12, 6:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wizard

I am 60 years old. A cradle Catholic. Went to Catholic grammer school for eight years (first through eighth grade) and even went to a Catholic university for four years. And up to about two years ago I had just a rudimentry knowledge of Catholic teachings. It was discussions with Protestant friends that got me to learn more about The Church's teachings. But I had to do it on my own! Why does The Church neglect the education of It's members? I have called about 80% of the parished in my town asking if they offer a course on the Church teachings. Their reponse was they had RCIA classed and a Catholics Coming Home program but no other adult classes. Well, I am already a Catholic and I am already home but I want more in depth knowledge. A 20 minute homily on Sunday is not going to hack it when it comes to learning the Faith.

I have to agree with others, most churches offer classes, lectures and more but few show up. Today we have books and internet and EWTN on the radio and tv and a lot of ways to learn the faith.

**1ke** · #44 May 27, '12, 8:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wizard

I am 60 years old. A cradle Catholic. Went to Catholic grammer school for eight years (first through eighth grade) and even went to a Catholic university for four years. And up to about two years ago I had just a rudimentry knowledge of Catholic teachings. It was discussions with Protestant friends that got me to learn more about The Church's teachings. But I had to do it on my own! Why does The Church neglect the education of It's members?

News flash.

The Church's teaching is, and always has been, that PARENTS are the primary educators of their children in the faith.

Don't like the fact that your religious education was neglected, go tell your parents how disappointed you are in them.

Really. This is and was your parents' responsibility. The Church is there as a help to parents, not a replacement.

asia53 · #45 May 27, '12, 9:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ke

News flash.

The Church's teaching is, and always has been, that PARENTS are the primary educators of their children in the faith.

Don't like the fact that your religious education was neglected, go tell your parents how disappointed you are in them.

Really. This is and was your parents' responsibility. The Church is there as a help to parents, not a replacement.

You're right. There are some Catholic parents at fault. However, my parents weren't Catholic. So I definitely won't be telling my parents how disappointed I am in them. How could they teach me something they don't know???