2 female Army officers sue to reverse combat ban

[AthenaC]

Originally Posted by reconman

He won't 'cause he can't.

Not true. He and I both did.

[The Patriarch]

Originally Posted by reconman

Great idea! We should restructure the entire U.S. navy deployment, command and control and physical requirement protocols, just so girls can have their own ship.

Essentially overhaul the entire navy for the sake of political correctness.

I guess we would have to overhaul the ships as well, to accommodate women who are unable to physically complete some tasks that are required aboard a modern carrier or battleship.

Ugh! 5,500 women on one ship...imagine the "monthly" spat... I have seven daughters out of thirteen. I speak from knowledge

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by reconman

... We should restructure the entire U.S. navy deployment, command and control and physical requirement protocols, just so girls can have their own ship.

Essentially overhaul the entire navy for the sake of political correctness.

I guess we would have to overhaul the ships as well, to accommodate women who are unable to physically complete some tasks that are required aboard a modern carrier or battleship.

Might as well go all the way while they're at it.

_________________
What started as a demand for basic civil rights has mutated into a liberal demand to overturn the whole society, along with its traditions and norms, its standards and laws, its history and heroes.

[AthenaC]

Originally Posted by The Patriarch

Ugh! 5,500 women on one ship...imagine the "monthly" spat... I have seven daughters out of thirteen. I speak from knowledge

You're not kidding!

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by The Patriarch

Ugh! 5,500 women on one ship...imagine the "monthly" spat... ...

Hold on a sec. This could have possibilities. What if they were all put in their own army division? Now that would be a force to recon with, as long as the fighting took place at the right time.

[A_Augustinus]

More than one person has commented on problems with unit cohesion and discipline when women fought on the front lines in the Israeli military. Does anyone have any documentation for this? I've been searching online and haven't turned up anything.

[reconman]

Originally Posted by AthenaC

Not true. He and I both did.

You did, to be sure.

Your entire argument is based on politically correct feminist doctrine that you admitted cannot work in the real world.

As for Rich Olszewski's reasons, we are still waiting.

[Captain America]

Totally opposed to women in combat.

There are plenty of able young men who can take the fire first.

[Springkeeper]

Three examples:

#1. We are doing an event and had men and women in line. All were to remain in line. The shorter and weaker women had a hard time getting through the brush and the men kept themselves back to help the females and therefore "broke the line".

#2. Marine Corps A-line combat training. The women went first and took over 20 minutes to complete AND left one of their shortest members behind because she was unable to get over the first wall. They let the men go and they tore up that course in under 5 minutes. Oh, and the first man grabbed the left-behind woman by the belt and THREW her on top of the wall, all without breaking stride.

#3. Crucible course. Takes at least twice as many women twice as long to lift the same gear as the men.

#2 & #3 were done at the end of Marine Corps boot camp so both the men and women should have been at approximately equal levels, especially since the men had actually a week or so LESS training at that point.

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by Springkeeper

Three examples:

#1. We are doing an event and had men and women in line. All were to remain in line. The shorter and weaker women had a hard time getting through the brush and the men kept themselves back to help the females and therefore "broke the line".

#2. Marine Corps A-line combat training. The women went first and took over 20 minutes to complete AND left one of their shortest members behind because she was unable to get over the first wall. They let the men go and they tore up that course in under 5 minutes. Oh, and the first man grabbed the left-behind woman by the belt and THREW her on top of the wall, all without breaking stride.

#3. Crucible course. Takes at least twice as many women twice as long to lift the same gear as the men.

#2 & #3 were done at the end of Marine Corps boot camp so both the men and women should have been at approximately equal levels, especially since the men had actually a week or so LESS training at that point.

These examples don't count because they don't fit the narrative.
_________________
The indispensable condition for our personal spiritual survival is that we say NO to the prevailing values of the liberal order and that we KEEP saying NO.

[Springkeeper]

Originally Posted by A_Augustinus

More than one person has commented on problems with unit cohesion and discipline when women fought on the front lines in the Israeli military. Does anyone have any documentation for this? I've been searching online and haven't turned up anything.

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/p...%20creveld.pdf

From a professor in Jerusalem. Discusses history of women in Israel army and myths.

http://old.nationalreview.com/owens/...0501110730.asp

Pre-Israeli statehood women in combat

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by Springkeeper

Three examples:

#1. We are doing an event and had men and women in line. All were to remain in line. The shorter and weaker women had a hard time getting through the brush and the men kept themselves back to help the females and therefore "broke the line".

#2. Marine Corps A-line combat training. The women went first and took over 20 minutes to complete AND left one of their shortest members behind because she was unable to get over the first wall. They let the men go and they tore up that course in under 5 minutes. Oh, and the first man grabbed the left-behind woman by the belt and THREW her on top of the wall, all without breaking stride.

#3. Crucible course. Takes at least twice as many women twice as long to lift the same gear as the men.

#2 & #3 were done at the end of Marine Corps boot camp so both the men and women should have been at approximately equal levels, especially since the men had actually a week or so LESS training at that point.

On second thought ...

General Mac Arthur said the first duty of a soldier is to keep physically fit. So have the plaintiffs prove they can do these training exercises as well as men.

[GaryTaylor]

Originally Posted by Springkeeper

AND LEFT A TEAM MEMBER BEHIND.

[epan]

Originally Posted by Springkeeper

Three examples:

#1. We are doing an event and had men and women in line. All were to remain in line. The shorter and weaker women had a hard time getting through the brush and the men kept themselves back to help the females and therefore "broke the line".

#2. Marine Corps A-line combat training. The women went first and took over 20 minutes to complete AND left one of their shortest members behind because she was unable to get over the first wall. They let the men go and they tore up that course in under 5 minutes. Oh, and the first man grabbed the left-behind woman by the belt and THREW her on top of the wall, all without breaking stride.

#3. Crucible course. Takes at least twice as many women twice as long to lift the same gear as the men.

#2 & #3 were done at the end of Marine Corps boot camp so both the men and women should have been at approximately equal levels, especially since the men had actually a week or so LESS training at that point.

At the risk of sounding sexist. MCRD and Parris Island have now both had female commandants. One of the first orders of business of Gn. Salinas at MCRD was to reduce the levels of discipline and physical contact with new recruits. She also brought a respected DI up on charges of abuse. My opinion is that an experienced DI who has been in combat has a better idea of how to train men for combat than an arm chair general who has never been in combat.

The DI was vindicated. Of the 17 charges against him, he was convicted of drinking beer at an unauthorized location off base, and failure to report an incident. The DI (cpl Wendel) received an honorable discharge.

This may point to different values and perceptions between females and males contemplating the rigors of combat. I don't know what went into Gn. Salinas decision to bring charges, but it bothered me for the chilling effect that it may have on DI's training recruits for combat.

[JimR-OCDS]

Originally Posted by epan

At the risk of sounding sexist. MCRD and Parris Island have now both had female commandants. One of the first orders of business of Gn. Salinas at MCRD was to reduce the levels of discipline and physical contact with new recruits. She also brought a respected DI up on charges of abuse. My opinion is that an experienced DI who has been in combat has a better idea of how to train men for combat than an arm chair general who has never been in combat.

The DI was vindicated. Of the 17 charges against him, he was convicted of drinking beer at an unauthorized location off base, and failure to report an incident. The DI (cpl Wendel) received an honorable discharge.

This may point to different values and perceptions between females and males contemplating the rigors of combat. I don't know what went into Gn. Salinas decision to bring charges, but it bothered me for the chilling effect that it may have on DI's training recruits for combat.

As a former Marine, it concerns me that a woman would be put in charge of MCRD Paris Island.

As you state, how can a woman, who never served in combat, order Drill Instructors who have, on what is necessary to train combat ready recruits?

Luckily, combat training for Marine Recruits is done at Camp Lejeune. I hope a women isn't charge there as well?

Jim