Government Declares War On Your Wealth

[ACCT]

You’re seeing massive declines unfold in almost all markets. The reason for it is rather simple, and it’s something I’ve been warning you about.

Even in the midst of what should prove to be the biggest commodity bull market ever, you can get sharp dis-inflationary moves, especially when ...

• Investors are frightened that governments may be going broke, like they are concerned now with Europe. When that happens, and they see no light on the horizon, they take their money and head for the hills — panicking and selling almost everything in sight.

• The world’s leaders are equally at a loss about what to do, investors again head for the hills, and choose to park their money largely in cash — another motive for selling almost all assets.

• They believe that it’s far-more-important to be concerned with the return of their money than the return on their money, they run for the hills even more — causing even more selling.

And yes, even that religiously passionate asset these days — GOLD — can get caught up in the selling.

I’ve been warning about all of this, and it’s here now. Investors, seeing Europe start to completely unravel, are dumping just about everything. Asset prices are plunging, from stocks to commodities, even to real estate (again).

And although this is a short-term move, and NOT the major trend (which remains up for commodities), it’s not about to stop anytime soon.

Larry Edelson

[ACCT]

Western nations are living (and dying) on debt: Western governments are drowning in debt and need to borrow trillions of dollars more just to survive.

The U.S. government alone may have to rollover and borrow as much as $3 trillion in the next 12 months. Europe is staring at at least a trillion in rollover financing, not to mention another trillion it may soon need to bail out its sinking banks.

Simply put, they desperately NEED low interest rates to survive. Even if it means you don’t get a return on your savings anymore.

[Dan Grelinger]

From Wikipedia: "An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages."

Is it a 'discussion' when only one person is talking?

[mdecler2]

Originally Posted by Dan Grelinger

From Wikipedia: "An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages."

Is it a 'discussion' when only one person is talking?

No, but when prophets speak, they can leave the people speechless, or cause them to turn away in disgust. I am reading every word of this thread.

I am speechless. I really don't know what to say. My friends are telling me similar things as this ACCT fellow, and I don't know what to say to them either. Some say its the end of the world. Others say that it is "the end of an age": the West will collapse and America with it.

I am not just hearing the message of "economic collapse" from ACCT. I seem to hear it everywhere, but articulated most poignantly by faithful Catholics.

It is very hard for me to accept these messages because I grew up in a world full of sensationalism, empty entertainment, lies, and hedonism. Are these messages just inspired by pop culture, "2012" movie entertainment, or is this real? I know how much TV my parents watch, and everything that comes from this generation I hold with immediate distrust until proven not guilty.

Either every aspect of Western culture is being infested by lies, or I am going to have to face some hard facts.

Do I believe this? In whom can I trust if not my own friends? I don't know. I just don't know. Did not Jesus say that we will know neither the day nor the hour, and that many would come claiming to know it?

[aragonjohn1]

Reminds me of how the HHS mandate violated the commerce clause religious liberty , the first amendment etc...

Shalom

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by septimine

Well, I think the problem is that we haven't worked seriously at alternates at all. My city really only has one private homeless shelter -- 2 million people cannot do better? ...

This question is part of the mindset that got us into the current situation. What relationship does the population bear with the number of homeless shelters a city needs? Using that as a determining factor only feeds a bureaucracy because the number of homeless shelters will be based on some "feel-good" subjective thing with lots of staff to run them. And, of course, any cutback to what is truly necessary becomes a "war on the poor".

Rather, I would think the number of shelters would be determined by the number of homeless.

[Dan Grelinger]

Originally Posted by mdecler2

No, but when prophets speak, they can leave the people speechless, or cause them to turn away in disgust. I am reading every word of this thread.

I am speechless. I really don't know what to say. My friends are telling me similar things as this ACCT fellow, and I don't know what to say to them either. Some say its the end of the world. Others say that it is "the end of an age": the West will collapse and America with it.

I am not just hearing the message of "economic collapse" from ACCT. I seem to hear it everywhere, but articulated most poignantly by faithful Catholics.

It is very hard for me to accept these messages because I grew up in a world full of sensationalism, empty entertainment, lies, and hedonism. Are these messages just inspired by pop culture, "2012" movie entertainment, or is this real? I know how much TV my parents watch, and everything that comes from this generation I hold with immediate distrust until proven not guilty.

Either every aspect of Western culture is being infested by lies, or I am going to have to face some hard facts.

Do I believe this? In whom can I trust if not my own friends? I don't know. I just don't know. Did not Jesus say that we will know neither the day nor the hour, and that many would come claiming to know it?

The ages, including contemporary time, have been full of false prophets proclaiming disaster, doom, catastrophe, and armegeddon. They are almost always wrong. And the few times they are right? Well, even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut by random chance.

Whenever someone says the 'know' what will happen in the future, experience has made me quite skeptical.

[JimG]

It’s true, the future is unknowable. And yet I get mixed signals on the possibilities.

One the one hand, the state of the Church seemed to have reached a nadir of dissent and heresy. The evil of contraception has played itself out in failed marriages and sexual exploitation, which spell nothing but disaster for society.

And yet, among the youth in my own diocese, especially families and among the seminarians, I see faith, hope, charity and orthodoxy such as I have not experienced in my lifetime. That’s got to be a hopeful sign.

I really don’t see any way that nations can extricate themselves from the mountain of debt that has been built up, except through an extended period of recession and hardship. For one thing, populations in the western world will not be able to support economic growth. That’s been one of the results of the contraceptive mentality, bringing on a depopulation which results in economic stagnation.

Reading “Adam and Even After the Pill,” the real and disastrous social consequences of contraception are spelled out. They have been documented.

Reading “Family and Civilization” by Zimmerman, it seems that civilizational breakdown resulting from breakdown of family structures was predicted, at least by him, back in the 1950’s.

Heck, even watching Jay Leno’s “Jaywalking” segment is disheartening! It shows the growing lack of “common” knowledge, an atomization of society.

But underlying all those is the huge debt crisis of European nations and the U.S.

I have to ignore all that, and consider our young seminarians. I cannot help but find in their faithfulness a sign of hope.

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by epan

... We need to solve the income distribution problem. ...

Is wealth distributed, or is it created?

I see you live in Seattle. Do you go to Canada for your health care? If not, why not?
_________________
“If incomes are equalized, they will be equalized at a low level.” – Economist Vilfredo Pareto, c. 1925

[Jimmygill88]

I wonder what position Jesus would take when presented with hybrid unbridled lust for wealth. I worry about the fact that many Americans see free health care as raging socialism and therefore 'a bad thing' I am genuinely puzzled about people who see low interest rates as an attack. What RIGHT have any of us to expect free money just for stuffing our bank acoustic with money that would be far better if it were in circulation. An obsession with having more money than you need, can only result in pushing God and fellow man further away. Talk of interest rates while people on earth have no water or shelter is obscene in a Roman Catholic forum

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by Jimmygill88

I wonder what position Jesus would take when presented with hybrid unbridled lust for wealth. I worry about the fact that many Americans see free health care as raging socialism and therefore 'a bad thing' I am genuinely puzzled about people who see low interest rates as an attack. What RIGHT have any of us to expect free money just for stuffing our bank acoustic with money that would be far better if it were in circulation. An obsession with having more money than you need, can only result in pushing God and fellow man further away. Talk of interest rates while people on earth have no water or shelter is obscene in a Roman Catholic forum

And I wonder what Jesus would say about unbridled envy of other peoples' money.

Please explain how money would be far better off in circulation as opposed to being invested. [Please don't appeal to "fairness".]
_________________
"Liberals never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money – only for wanting to keep your own money." – columnist Joe Sobran

[Dan Grelinger]

Originally Posted by Jimmygill88

I wonder what position Jesus would take when presented with hybrid unbridled lust for wealth.

Why wonder? If you use the term lust properly, then it is always sinful. Or perhaps you were only being facetious.

Originally Posted by Jimmygill88

I worry about the fact that many Americans see free health care as raging socialism and therefore 'a bad thing'.

If any health care could be 'free', then of course it would be a good thing. Just like a money tree in my back yard that yielded a daily harvest of unlimited cash would be. Alas, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and no such thing as free health care. Health care requires signficant real money and real effort. When we call something like healthcare free, we do so to confuse the topic. What we really mean is that "You are my slave and you must pay for my healthcare and I don't want you to have a choice in the matter or have free will; you exist to serve me.' I worry about those that insist the world owes them anything that can only be delivered by enslaving people into mandatory 'charity'. That is a very self-centered and selfish opinion, and I don't have to wonder what Jesus would think about that. He NEVER preached that the state should enforce charity, and for good reason. Charity can only be charity when it is voluntary.

Originally Posted by Jimmygill88

I am genuinely puzzled about people who see low interest rates as an attack. What RIGHT have any of us to expect free money just for stuffing our bank acoustic with money that would be far better if it were in circulation.

There is that word again; 'free'. But now you talk about getting stuff for free like it is a bad thing. Confusing..... Perhaps what you mean is when you get free stuff, it is OK, and when others expect free stuff and it might end up costing YOU, then it is a bad idea.

Originally Posted by Jimmygill88

An obsession with having more money than you need, can only result in pushing God and fellow man further away. Talk of interest rates while people on earth have no water or shelter is obscene in a Roman Catholic forum

Methinks you do not understand the word obscene. Our God is a God of abundance, and He leaves room for an infinite number of good and worthy pursuits.

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by Dan Grelinger

Why wonder? If you use the term lust properly, then it is always sinful. Or perhaps you were only being facetious.
If any health care could be 'free', then of course it would be a good thing. Just like a money tree in my back yard that yielded a daily harvest of unlimited cash would be.

LOL! LMAO!

Alas, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and no such thing as free health care. Health care requires signficant real money and real effort. When we call something like healthcare free, we do so to confuse the topic.

Sowell says that when a highly desired commodity is free, it becomes unavailable. If the government was in charge of the Sahara Desert, in a few years, there would be a shortage of sand.

... Methinks you do not understand the word obscene. Our God is a God of abundance, and He leaves room for an infinite number of good and worthy pursuits.

God made us with different levels of skills, abilities, and knowledge. This, I believe, is to make us realize that we are dependent on one another because no one can provide himself with everything he will ever need. What has the politician done but to undermine this by creating envy to get votes.

_________________
“Class-warfare politics is bad enough when it is for real. But often it is as phony as a three-dollar bill, when the same politicians pass high tax rates on "the rich" to win votes – and then get financial support from "the rich" to create loopholes that enable them to avoid paying those high tax rates.” – Thomas Sowell

[Seeker1961]

The thing I see is that since the 1970's the spending ability of the working and middle classes has gone down. Of course, nobody noticed because banks made all that nice easy credit available and people could still keep spending. It took until the 2008 and some really dumb banking decisons for the bottom to really drop out, but it was coming for a long time.

Our economy is very heavily based on consumer spending and when the largest number of your consumers stop being able to consume, it's not going to be good. When working and middle class folks have extra money, they go on vacation, they go out to dinner, they buy things..and they create demand for more, which creates jobs.

The bottom line is that there aren't enough really wealthy people. There's nothing wrong with them, we just need them AND a strong middle and working class to really get things moving.

[boclucky14]

Originally Posted by Jimmygill88

. . . I am genuinely puzzled about people who see low interest rates as an attack. . . . What RIGHT have any of us to expect free money just for stuffing our bank acoustic with money that would be far better if it were in circulation . . .

Others have said my thoughts on the other commennts you made, except this one.

I have just finished my Freshman year in a public university, with one of my latest classes being Econ 1010 (but I didn't take English for over a year now ).

I would hate to give anyone an Econ lesson on anything, but I like the topic (hence, why I pulled out an A from a C going into the Final ).

Interest Rate is simply the price of money.

Let's say you want to open a business. You need some capital though, so you head to the bank, and ask to borrow money. They charge you the Interest Rate for that money, as that is the cost for that money. In return, the bank pays the depositors the Interest Rate (technically, it's lower, but not important for this topic) for allowing the use of the money.

When the Interest Rate is low, it normally reflects a large supply and a small demand. As such, a small demand would result from the lack of economic growth, when business are hestinent about future monetary actions, and are worried about getting hit with rising costs or less demand for the product/service upon getting a loan.

When the Interest Rate is high, it normally reflects a smaller supply and a large demand. And, accordingly, a large demand would result from economic growth - when a company wants to expand facilities to increase production.


Therefore, when you place your money in a bank, you are not keeping the money out of circulation. It's allowing the bank to turn around, give that money to someone who wants it (and, in a better world, with a good, economic use for that money, with a detailed plan on how to get the Bank it's money back). Then the that person would go out, perhaps start a business, hire a few people, and become an entreupenour, causing money circulation from your money that you don't wish to use.

Money placed in a bank allows for more economic growth. But when the government starts causing inflation, it causes a huge opportunity cost for placing money in a savings account. It also, monetarily, makes it easier to get a loan, since banks are inflated with money from no where.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, by you placing your money in a bank, your also technically losing the use of your money if needed immediately (online banking has changed that in some ways, but even then, the website could go down, be unavailable, or you need cash). The bank is paying you a price for your money. If they didn't profit from it, why would they take it? It's not free money. They're making revenue, and giving the depositors some revenue of their own, because the more depositors they have, the more liquid capital they have.