Dripping crucifix sparks Indian blasphemy row [CNAU] - Page 2

jerry_joseph · #16 Jun 1, '12, 6:14 am

As per Indian Law, a person have the right to believe or not to believe in any faith. But nobody have the right to insult the faith of others. Anybody can preach his faith. Atheists have right to preach atheism..but not have the right to shower mockery at religions..

Here he is punished not for blasphemy. But for violating the religious feelings of Roman Catholics..He gone to catholic church, while church ceremonies are going on he showered his prejudices over their..It is violation of religious freedom. Catholic church filed a suit against him in court and police station. Punishment is given by Indian Judiciary and not catholic church. My personal opinion is three years imprisonment is not enough.. He deserves much more.

What happens if a Muslim comes to christian church and disturbs holy mass saying that jesus is not God and not crucified?..What happens if he goes to a hindu temple and stops his freedom of worshiping his Gods. ?..

So some regulations of freedom is required for protecting the basic human right and freedom of everybody. Especially in a multi religious continent like Asia and a multi religious country like india.

**JharekCarnelian** · #17 Jun 1, '12, 6:17 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

Nope, he took away the revenue stream for what was becoming a popular false miracle and for that received the wrath of bigots who appealed to an even more bigoted section of India's Constitution that mandates respect for religions. And to suggest he has the freedom to be an atheist is to deny the reality on the ground when it comes to discrimination against atheists.

Could you imagine the US Constitution having an amendment that made it illegal for a Catholic to upset the feelings of a Scientologist, punishable by prison? Just think about that for a minute. That's the situation over there.

The TV show asked this well-known provincial Myth-Buster to investigate. And investigate he did. Comfort, as usual, wins out over truth. Despicable.

The US is not India Sample and the US model is not one that works for all other places equally. India is a country where religious violence of an extent unknown in US history has occurred time and time again in living memory. Attempting to shoehorn all other nations into the US model is a dubious exercise.

Sample · #18 Jun 1, '12, 6:23 am

Quote:

Same punishment will get , if a Roman Catholic goes to atheists conference and insults them..

Equally dispicable, if that were true.

Quote:

But he does not have the right to insult religion..

I'll ask again, what is the punishment for claiming to have a miracle when you don't?

jerry_joseph · #19 Jun 1, '12, 6:25 am

India is the worlds biggest democratic country. Home to all world religions .. There are more than 30 million christians in India.. More than the total population of Canada. It is home to 150 million muslims.. More than the total population of Russia and it is the worlds second largest muslim populated nations..

Religious violence's occurs in India , that is a fact, which is creation of politicians and persons working for political gains from religious feelings.. Majority of Indians are peace lovers..

Sample · #20 Jun 1, '12, 6:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

The US is not India Sample and the US model is not one that works for all other places equally. India is a country where religious violence of an extent unknown in US history has occurred time and time again in living memory. Attempting to shoehorn all other nations into the US model is a dubious exercise.

I'm not asking anyone to adopt the US Constitution, I am asking for reflection and most importantly, awareness about an event that exquisitely highlights problems when religion and state are intertwined.

jerry_joseph · #21 Jun 1, '12, 6:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

Equally dispicable, if that were true.

I'll ask again, what is the punishment for claiming to have a miracle when you don't?

Here church did not made any official decree that it is a miracle.. When believers saw water coming from crucified statue of Jesus, they thought that it is a miracle..They gathered around that statue and started offering prayers. Please listen to the voice of catholic bishop in that video.. He clearly states that church did not officially declared it as a miracle.. Then that athiests tries to changes the topic to the issue of Bruno and Exorcism.. What is the role of bruno and exorcism in this subject?..

**JharekCarnelian** · #22 Jun 1, '12, 6:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

I'm not asking anyone to adopt the US Constitution, I am asking for reflection and most importantly, awareness about an event that exquisitely highlights problems when religion and state are intertwined.

The US exquisitely highlights that in and of itself everday gospodin.

jerry_joseph · #23 Jun 1, '12, 6:47 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

I'm not asking anyone to adopt the US Constitution, I am asking for reflection and most importantly, awareness about an event that exquisitely highlights problems when religion and state are intertwined.

Here there is no intervention of religion in state matters.. Here that atheist is punished for insulting Roman Catholicism by coming to catholic church and showered his prejudices there while church ceremonies are going on there. Is it right?. Tomorrow if a catholic goes to atheists conference and disturbs their conference , same thing will happen. he will also be punished..

Sample · #24 Jun 1, '12, 8:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry_joseph

Here there is no intervention of religion in state matters.. Here that atheist is punished for insulting Roman Catholicism by coming to catholic church and showered his prejudices there while church ceremonies are going on there. Is it right?. Tomorrow if a catholic goes to atheists conference and disturbs their conference , same thing will happen. he will also be punished..

jerry_joseph,

I fail to see the strength of your argument: two wrongs make a right? No, these folks got caught in a lie and are crying foul. The myth-buster didn't even claim that miracles were impossible in principle, but rather exposed a lie.

This is, or should be, a unifying event for all people of good will (theist or non-theist) to say, having your feelings hurt when a lie is exposed is not disrespecting your religion.

Mike

jerry_joseph · #25 Jun 1, '12, 8:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

jerry_joseph,

I fail to see the strength of your argument: two wrongs make a right? No, these folks got caught in a lie and are crying foul. The myth-buster didn't even claim that miracles were impossible in principle, but rather exposed a lie.

This is, or should be, a unifying event for all people of good will (theist or non-theist) to say, having your feelings hurt when a lie is exposed is not disrespecting your religion.

Mike

It is not a lie?. What is lie here?.. What he exposed here?. He is showing the possibility that rain water might come through that statue through the walls. But that statue is not attached to any wall. It is in open air. Secondly he says pointing towards the water flow marks in the floor , water may come though that ?. How come water go upwards upto the nails of crucified jesus?.. Also it lasted for so many days. So lay believers considered it as a miracle. Church does not took any official stand in this.

Sample · #26 Jun 1, '12, 8:42 am

I'm sorry jerry_joseph,

I'm unable to make my point any clearer.

jerry_joseph · #27 Jun 1, '12, 9:18 am

See here another miracle of cross. Fragrant oil flowed from the cross.It happened at St Marys Syrian Jacobite church in India..

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/miracle-d...22-60-116.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnBVB...eature=related

jerry_joseph · #28 Jun 1, '12, 9:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

I'm sorry jerry_joseph,

I'm unable to make my point any clearer.

I understood your point..." two wrongs make a right?" ..."o say, having your feelings hurt when a lie is exposed is not disrespecting your religion."

Disrespect in this is not false exposing of miracle of cross. But disturbing religious ceremonies...All atheists are leading by a faith that nothing will go beyond natural laws and for them miracles are Lie, created by religious priests. Is it justifiable to disturb an atheist conference , by a catholic?..

Here what is wrong with catholics,? Did anybody physically hurt him?. They filed a suit against him .. It is indian judiciary punished him and not catholic church..

**rlg94086** · #29 Jun 1, '12, 2:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

rlg94086 posts from from within the US, while you do not. Might that fact play into your opinions about free speech being illusory? Care to elaborate?

Unless JharekCarnelian posts something of substance to back up his off-handed remarks, there is really no need to discuss it with him anymore. There are plenty of people who are hypercritical of the US and feel they need to bring it up in completely unrelated threads.

I would hope everyone beileves in freedom of speech and religion. I am thankful that my country has both, and I'm not sure why some people don't think both will "work" in other countries. You shouldn't face jail time or even fines for stating doubt about a miracle and/or "violating the feelings" of others. If there was a violent act or threat involved, it would be a different matter.

jerry_joseph · #30 Jun 1, '12, 8:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlg94086

Unless JharekCarnelian posts something of substance to back up his off-handed remarks, there is really no need to discuss it with him anymore. There are plenty of people who are hypercritical of the US and feel they need to bring it up in completely unrelated threads.

I would hope everyone beileves in freedom of speech and religion. I am thankful that my country has both, and I'm not sure why some people don't think both will "work" in other countries. You shouldn't face jail time or even fines for stating doubt about a miracle and/or "violating the feelings" of others. If there was a violent act or threat involved, it would be a different matter.

In India also everybody have right to speech and religion. Anybody can belive in any religion or not to believe in any religion. But nobody have right to insult others or disturb others worship.