Why are so many parents afraid to parent?

[kmuestwin]

Originally Posted by mini_me640

I am far more bothered by the adults playing with their smart phones and/or chatting with the person they are with at Mass than with a bored toddler getting a little rambunctious.

That is far more egregious because an adult should know better.


My real point was to ask if you think that the dynamic between parents and children has changed.

[maryjk]

Originally Posted by dconklin

My guess is Twin is not a parent.

My kids have always been perfect angels at Mass. They have never been spanked.

Kids are not robots that can be programmed properly. We are all imperfect. If were were perfect, we could attend Mass and ignore any distractions.

Actually I think it is Joan that isn't a parent, or at least I hope she isn't. Instead of quoting Twin, Joan typed within the quote. This is what Joan wrote.

I agree. But I also think that spanking is most definitely necessary and while it could become abuse, properly used it is not. Further, I do not care what others think of my opinion in this - I just sigh interiorly and bet that their children are probably brats.

What is funny is that I have never spanked my child and I consistantly get complements about his behavior. Whereas I have a number of friends that have children that are brats, they have all been spanked.

Thinking that spanking is necessary IS abuse. And like Joan, I don't care what others think about my opinion about that.

[jilly4ski]

Originally Posted by Ninian29

Parents cant win nowadays,if you spank your children in public you will be arrested and have the social workers on to you.If you dont you are accused of not discipline your children.It`s people attitude that are different and the political correct Gov that interfere and constantly undermine parents.

I agree with this. Even with less harsh punishments, a parent might be afraid to use them in public. If my toddler runs out into the parking lot, because I have the baby and the bags, and I run out after him and roughly grab his arm and forcefully haul him back onto the sidewalk, while telling him how naughty that is, is some self proclaimed anti-child abuse advocate going to call the cops or CPS on me?

So far I have had one little angel in Mass, never made a peep and generally sat relatively still (He is now 3 and only now is starting to get a antsy). And one absolute terror in Mass, temper tantrums, screaming, head butting, whining when he doesn't get what he wants, lots of noise and lots of movement (He is now 17 months and only in the last month or so have I been able to spend the entire time in Mass, and even that is a struggle). Kids are different.

[kmuestwin]

I don't think my first thread is going well.





I feel like everyone jumped on the spank / nospank part of my ramblings and didn't really focus on what I see as a change in the parent/ child dynamic.


Parents used to be for the first 5 years of a child's life, their only source of information. Now, with the advent of technology, kids can learn and do learn much of their knowledge from media sources. I feel like this weakens the parent's role as caretaker and teacher and it weakens the child's role as pupil.


These are all assumptions. Please teach me and don't get mad. I just want to learn more about something that I know very little about.

[Cristiano]

Parents are so afraid to parent because it is scary to parent. No ifs our buts about it. Parents failed in the past and they fail now. I do not think that things are worst now, and if children are taught to misbehave it is not just because parents are failing at that but simply because society allows or even supports misbehaving.
What amazes me is when the parents that have misbehaving children spend time complaining about or scolding other parents' children. Role modeling is gone down the drain when fathers do not know to behave like men but they act like little boys and mothers compete with their daughters for being the coolest pretty girl.
I struggle with my duty as a father, often I am too strict and sometime I am too lax, I am not 100% consistent and that scares me. I do question myself and I realize that in certain occasions I do not know better and I cannot figure out the possible consequences of my decisions as a parent.
I do not think that the roles have changed has much as you think, it is just that what is tolerated today as a society is much different from twenty years ago and even more from 50 years ago. Cultural fashions come and go, do not be surprised to see a reversal of some parenting behaviors ahead of us.

[gardenswithkids]

Originally Posted by kmuestwin

I don't think my first thread is going well.


...Please teach me and don't get mad. I just want to learn more about something that I know very little about.

Don't get discouraged on your first thread! I want commend you on your creative and entertaining use smilies on the original post.

[Luna Lovecraft]

Into every generation is cohort of bad parents is born.

My grandparents used to rail against the unshaven hippie parents who let their unwashed offspring run around naked in the yard while they followed their bliss by getting high to The Doors and Grateful Dead. My mother (said unshaven hippie) rails against adults who refer to each other as "mommies," who chart their children's bowel movements, and who helicopter around their kids 24/7. And when I'm in a mood I rail against parents who seem not care that their children are running amok.

Really, parents can't win for losing. If you spank your kids you're abusive. If you let the misbehaving die out on it's own you're a permissive wallflower. If you co-sleep you're having trouble letting go. If you stick the kid in its own room from day one you're cold. And God help you with feeding your kids because nothing, nothing you do will be right. Same with any and all decisions related to diapers, potty training, naps, rewards/punishments, going to Mass, clothing, sports and naughtiness.

There will always be someone handy to point out how you're an epic parenting failure and messing your children up each and every step of the parenting way.

Luna

[Cristiano]

Originally Posted by kmuestwin

I don't think my first thread is going well.




.

An internet thread is like mixing vinegar and baking soda. You always expect some bubbling, but usually things do not go exactly the way you wished for.

[TheRealJuliane]

Originally Posted by kmuestwin

I don't think my first thread is going well.





I feel like everyone jumped on the spank / nospank part of my ramblings and didn't really focus on what I see as a change in the parent/ child dynamic.


Parents used to be for the first 5 years of a child's life, their only source of information. Now, with the advent of technology, kids can learn and do learn much of their knowledge from media sources. I feel like this weakens the parent's role as caretaker and teacher and it weakens the child's role as pupil.


These are all assumptions. Please teach me and don't get mad. I just want to learn more about something that I know very little about.

No, your observations are very valid. We have been treating children as little adults for quite a while now, and the media including Disney movies, shows children independent of adults and in fact, far SURPASSING adults in intelligence and wisdom. There are many people who believe, for example, that children cannot lie!

If you listen closely, in the media you will hear echoes of, "We can learn from our children..." which is total BUNK. Especially to Catholic Christians, as we know that our children are born with the stain of original sin and they are in no way wise nor qualified to teach us about life. There's a commercial that I hear regularly on the radio, where a father intones about his son, "Did I teach him, or did he teach me?" or nonsense very close to that. Well, Dad, if you have to wonder, you probably didn't teach him a whole lot!

In this world of "tolerance," the highest value is putting up with unacceptable behavior. Just look at the Occupy "movement," as one example of that. Bratty behavior in the extreme, these are kids whose parents didn't discipline, the ones who allow Junior to call them by their first name.

Yeah, it sucks to be hated by your kid for doing discipline, for being the hammer in their life, for being an authority. But you have to grow up and assume that role the minute that baby pokes its head into the world. Tough cookies, sunshine, man up and set those bratty kids on their ears.

Oh, and the main factor, which I was going to mention and forgot until I had just posted this - was that because of divorce, so many adults in this society have NO experience in parenting to start with, having been raised without a father in the home full-time. My husband is a child of divorce and when it comes to being a dad...he struggles. I know he loves the boys, that's not even a question. He loves them deeply, and he sees that his own father failed him in critical ways. But it's been a struggle for him to truly assume the role of FATHER because he never had that in his own life.

[Kindness]

From my personal experience raising children does have a strong cultural element. I am British but my husband and kids are American, so my children were born in the US and spent their early years there. In the states I found that other parents considered me relatively strict as I expected my children to do things such as say please and thank you. However we moved to Germany and here the children are definitely expected to behave themselves and treat others with respect. Also no one will be shy to let you know if they think your child is misbehaving. They also won't be shy in approaching the child themselves and telling them to shape up. There are well behaved children in Britain the US and Germany and badly behaved children in all these nations in my experience.

Generally however I find that Americans expect children to need to be managed more and special activities to have to be made available for them and accommodation made or they will be out of control. In Germany children are expected to fit an adult society and just because someone is a child they are not expected to run wild if they are not constantly catered to. However I find Germany actually more child friendly! It is very safe with lots of open space everywhere and children still freely play outside and take themselves to and from school by foot, bus or train from the age of 5 or younger. So much of the time kids are given more responsibility for themselves and expected to know how to manage. The parents and schools do take time training them how to walk to school, how to take the bus safely and they even have bicycle training in primary school as they ride bikes everywhere. So I find children actually have more freedom and less constant supervision in Germany compared to the US and the UK. 85% of German schools finish by 1 or 2 pm every day so German children also spend more time with their families and playing in their neighborhood.

In Mass here German children are very well behaved, however there are so few of them! Families are smaller and many Catholics don't go to mass so the churches are made up of mostly the older generations i.e. I am often the youngest at mass at 43 if I go without the kids. So American kids may be livelier during mass but I am glad they are there! The parishes are still very young and lively (at least where I lived in the US) compared to here.

[kmuestwin]

Originally Posted by Cristiano

An internet thread is like mixing vinegar and baking soda. You always expect some bubbling, but usually things do not go exactly the way you wished for.

I should have realized that when I thought of this last night.

Parenting is so personal. Whenever someone feels like their style/method/beliefs are under attack, they go on the defensive. Everyone with kids wants to do a good job. When certain practices are addressed, it always brings people who want to battle a side. Parenting is a tough job and people put their hearts in it. I should have worded my opening post with that in mind.

I'm learning so bear with me.

[kmuestwin]

Originally Posted by Kindness

From my personal experience raising children does have a strong cultural element. I am British but my husband and kids are American, so my children were born in the US and spent their early years there. In the states I found that other parents considered me relatively strict as I expected my children to do things such as say please and thank you. However we moved to Germany and here the children are definitely expected to behave themselves and treat others with respect. Also no one will be shy to let you know if they think your child is misbehaving. They also won't be shy in approaching the child themselves and telling them to shape up. There are well behaved children in Britain the US and Germany and badly behaved children in all these nations in my experience.

Generally however I find that Americans expect children to need to be managed more and special activities to have to be made available for them and accommodation made or they will be out of control. In Germany children are expected to fit an adult society and just because someone is a child they are not expected to run wild if they are not constantly catered to. However I find Germany actually more child friendly! It is very safe with lots of open space everywhere and children still freely play outside and take themselves to and from school by foot, bus or train from the age of 5 or younger. So much of the time kids are given more responsibility for themselves and expected to know how to manage. The parents and schools do take time training them how to walk to school, how to take the bus safely and they even have bicycle training in primary school as they ride bikes everywhere. So I find children actually have more freedom and less constant supervision in Germany compared to the US and the UK. 85% of German schools finish by 1 or 2 pm every day so German children also spend more time with their families and playing in their neighborhood.

In Mass here German children are very well behaved, however there are so few of them! Families are smaller and many Catholics don't go to mass so the churches are made up of mostly the older generations i.e. I am often the youngest at mass at 43 if I go without the kids. So American kids may be livelier during mass but I am glad they are there! The parishes are still very young and lively (at least where I lived in the US) compared to here.

It's interesting to hear from someone with a more global perspective.

[EasterJoy]

Originally Posted by kmuestwin

On another thread, one poster said it was impossible to go to mass alone with two children (an infant and a two year old) because the two year old runs off during mass.

I am a twin and my father is in the military. My mom took us everywhere and neither me nor my brother ever ran off more than once or twice. The reason for this was because in our household, running off (or any misbehavior) resulted in a punishment.....

Are parents afraid to parent?

If so, what's the difference between then and now?

Several answers:

1) The same discipline that works on one kid can give very different results with another, and I mean two kids with the same parents in the same family. I know a family in which one child could be stung into compliance by a mere disapproving glance while a fellow sibling could be spanked without even slowing down. (Parents who had great success with the first one or two can find this a rude shock.)

2) Daily life used to require more on-going discipline, because houses were smaller and were not "child-proofed". Kids had to learn not to touch, they didn't get a room to themselves to run wild in, and so on.

3) Read what people wrote about the nature of boys in the 1920s or so. I think some grandpas and great grandpas have been telling some tall ones when it comes to how well-behaved they were when they were kids. I know I have heard grandparents nearly swallow their dentures in laughter when their pwn children lectured the grandchildren about how well-behaved the children were forced to be during their childhoods.

4) The whole world feels free to criticize your parenting these days. You are too strict. You are too lax. You don't know what you're doing. You need to listen to the experts. You're going to ruin your child. A relative of mind was followed around the store and out into the parking lot by some busybody who apparently thought her treatment of a tantrum (ignoring it and walking off!) was abusive. These incidents are not unusual, even at church. It would be a lot easier to parent if the rest of the world would simply mind their own business, which is what they were expected to do "in the old days".

Mostly, the answer is to be found in (4)....that is, if parents feel afraid to parent, it is because they get way too much advice, both solicited and unsolicited.

[Fireflylight]

Originally Posted by kmuestwin

I obviously hit a nerve with you.

Regardless of what you think of the scenarios I described, do you think that the way people parent now is different from before?

Honestly, I'm completely ignorant to the art of raising kids. It's a hard job and I am trying to understand it more and not belittle what others do.

Please help me learn and don't pick a fight. Instructing the ignorant is a spiritual work of mercy.

I think you're the average non-parent who believes extremes about children. The proverbial "my kid would never do that"

I'm not a parent, but a nanny, a tutor, a babysitter, and friend to those with big families and single parents.

1) kids can be unpredictable. I nannied a girl who was rambunctious but if I took her on a walk before grocery shopping she was tolerably behaved...most of the time. I had to be very strict and I can't tell you the number of times I was told that I was so mean and I should just let her express herself. I also nannied a little girl who was as sweet as pie, never threw a tantrum, never even looked crooked. I held her hand when walking in the grocery store but she followed me without touching much at age two. She would ask what something was by pointing (and occasinally by touching) but she was very careful and never (as the other little girl was prone to do) pulled from the bottom of a stack, etc.

2) Kids can have emotinal problems, too. The single mom I know has a little girl. It took her alot longer to behave in church becuase she didn't have that parent-parent back up...even when she returned home. It's hard for parents to do it on their own. VERY hard and church for the most part is not set up to help with this. The whole "where's your husband" is extrodinarly cruel. At 7 the little girl is finally reaching the emotinal maturity of a younger child who won't burst into tears at a sidewas glance.

3) Parenting from year zero to now has gone through changes and theories. I'm sure Mary and Joseph got gaff on occasion for Jesus' odd behavior. For centuries we expected 14yo's to be persuing men and 16yo boys to be ready to be fathers. Now, it's more like 28yo women and and 30yo guys. It's just the way it is. The age helps with parental maturity...and parenting styles. It seems to me as if younger parents prefer a more physical type of dicipline while older parents prefer a more mental/attention based discipline. There are some benefits to this. My signfigant other was never spanked and he and his sister are contributing memebers of society. His cousins were and they...welll....life hasn't been good. His parents were older, his aunt and uncle much younger. I firmly believe that many times a few years helps a parent be a good parent.

4) the best you can do is offer help and not advice or candy. Ask "what can I do for the struggling single mother, grandparents, etc." Does your parish have children's mass books? Most parents don't understand the fundamentals of Mass. I got my Mass book for first Communion. It was facinating...I wish I had it sooner. My little brothers had a swing on it and they were far better behaved after...becuase it was the story come to life.

5) understand kids are kids. Even the world's best kids have bad days. It happens. And it's really, really hard to be the parent/caretaker. Just becuase they aren't wooping the kids in front of you dosn't mean their won't be consequences. Kids still do go home to consequences or loose privleges.

[FullOfThought]

Originally Posted by 1ke

Yes, there is a lack of discpline in this generation of parents and an unwillingness to BE a parent. They want to be "friends" with their kids and be the "cool" parent. It is really harming the children.

This is a really interesting thread!

I am 10years old than my closest siblings, eldest of 5. I have to say that I was (and am to this day) terrified of my mother. I love her deeply, I respect her completely, speak to her everyday, yet we are NOT friends.. I am her daughter.

She has this *look* that would (still does) silence we from across the room! However, my siblings don't get it!! It's as if her parenting style has completely changed and my siblings answer her back! I would never have dared!! I have no idea why this is!

Recently, we were all hanging out and my little brother (13yrs) acted up and answered my mom back, my parents sat and said nothing! I yelled at him and told him "If you're going to insult your mother that's your choice, but don't you dare speak to MY mother like that". He apoligized and it seemed so effective... my parents just let it go??? I have no idea what's happened!!!