Does God NEED worship and why? - Page 2

Sample · #16 May 30, '12, 7:52 am

sw85,

Quote:

Mine is a religion which deprives me of my ability to do lots of things in good conscience I'd probably much rather be doing, like getting drunk, lying to people to avoid uncomfortable situations, fighting, sleeping with lots of beautiful girls, etc.

Why, if you weren't religious, would you probably rather be promiscuous, getting drunk and lying and fighting? Have you shared these desires with the closest people in your life? Are there other desires you have that are only being held in check by religion?

johnnyjones · #17 May 30, '12, 8:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

sw85,

Why, if you weren't religious, would you probably rather be promiscuous, getting drunk and lying and fighting? Have you shared these desires with the closest people in your life?

The religious life can prevent these harmful activities. Where does the desire to be moral come from in a person of no faith. Why be good to somebody? Does it just "feel" good? And if it does feel good, why?

sw85 · #18 May 30, '12, 10:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

sw85,

Why, if you weren't religious, would you probably rather be promiscuous, getting drunk and lying and fighting? Have you shared these desires with the closest people in your life? Are there other desires you have that are only being held in check by religion?

That's a dumb question. I'd rather sleep around because sex feels good. I'd rather get drunk because drunkenness feels good. I'd rather lie because the situations that lying enables me to avoid would be uncomfortable otherwise. I'd rather fight because it feels good to visit vengeance on your enemies rather than forgive them.

If all there is, ultimately, is pleasure and feelings of pleasantness, why not do these things?

At any rate, are you prepared to acknowledge that, in fact, the concessions which religion (esp. Catholicism) demands of its adherents are greater than any earthly, psychological benefits they might reap from it?

**tonyrey** · #19 May 30, '12, 10:49 am

Not to worship God reveals filial ingratitude....

atheistgirl · #20 May 30, '12, 11:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample

sw85,

Why, if you weren't religious, would you probably rather be promiscuous, getting drunk and lying and fighting? Have you shared these desires with the closest people in your life? Are there other desires you have that are only being held in check by religion?

Excellent questions.

I never ever want ''religion'' to end, because I am seriously concerned about certain people, who, if it wasn't for their ''religion'' (of whatever brand) seem to think they have such little empathy, such little self awareness, and such little self control, all right thinking people would be in danger from them, were they to cross paths.

Sarah x

**tonyrey** · #21 May 30, '12, 11:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

I never ever want ''religion'' to end, because I am seriously concerned about certain people, who, if it wasn't for their ''religion'' (of whatever brand) seem to think they have such little empathy, such little self awareness, and such little self control, all right thinking people would be in danger from them, were they to cross paths.

I am genuinely and seriously concerned about people who are brainwashed into thinking we are naked apes who just happen to exist for no reason whatsoever and are tempted to kill themselves and their children when they're in trouble - as so many have done already - because they see no point in living.

atheistgirl · #22 May 30, '12, 11:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyrey

and are tempted to kill themselves (and their children) when they're in trouble - as so many have done already - because they see no point in living.

Unlike people like Lyn Benedetto you mean

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,3939586.story

Sarah x

PJM · #23 May 30, '12, 11:41 am

Quote:

=johnnyjones;9349904]So we were created to praise God, "declare his praise"? That goes to God "wanting" praise. I ask this question because a few atheists have asked , Why does an all powerful God even need/want praise?

John God can accurately be described as:

"All Good things PERFECTED"

Because God is and has to be "perfect" He cannot in ANY WAY be "more perfect" [a redundancy]... So God DESIRES but does NOT NEED Worship and Adoration.

WHY THEN the desire?

BECAUSE THESE ACTS BENEFIT HUMANITY FAR MORE IN THE GIVING THAN GOD GETS IN THE GETTING

PJM · #24 May 30, '12, 11:50 am

Quote:

=Sample;9352426]sw85,

Why, if you weren't religious, would you probably rather be promiscuous, getting drunk and lying and fighting? Have you shared these desires with the closest people in your life? Are there other desires you have that are only being held in check by religion?

So FRIEND,

JUST WHY are you here?

God Bless YOU!

pat/ PJM

**tonyrey** · #25 May 30, '12, 12:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

Unlike people like Lyn Benedetto you mean

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,3939586.story

The fact that some kill themselves (and their children) because they are deluded does not mean many others don't do the same because they are brainwashed into thinking we are naked apes and consequently see no point in living. .

Dorothy · #26 May 30, '12, 1:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyjones

So we were created to praise God, "declare his praise"? That goes to God "wanting" praise. I ask this question because a few atheists have asked , Why does an all powerful God even need/want praise?

Not because He needs the praise, but BECAUSE IT IS GOOD FOR US! He loves us infinitely and desires that we be one with Him forever!

LegoGE1947 · #27 May 30, '12, 3:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sw85

I didn't know Susan B. Anthony was our standard for philosophical insight here.

At any rate, I hear this a lot from atheists. I believe in Christ because I want to -- because it suits me -- because it makes things easier for me -- etc. etc. Now perhaps that's true for our Protestant friends who can mutilate the Bible to say whatever they want with the approval of their much-vaunted "consciences," but for Catholics, it's BS.

Mine is a religion which deprives me of my ability to do lots of things in good conscience I'd probably much rather be doing, like getting drunk, lying to people to avoid uncomfortable situations, fighting, sleeping with lots of beautiful girls, etc. And it is a religion which, if true, dictates that most everyone I know and love will go to Hell, obstinate sinners that they are. Very likely I'll go there too, since straight is the gate and narrow the way that leads to Heaven and few enter it.

I'm not a Catholic because it suits me. It doesn't suit me. I had to remake me to suit it. That's what you do with the truth.

Real, true Catholicism is probably the toughest road in this life to travel because it leads straight to the Cross and only then to heaven. Seems Catholicism has made life anything BUT easier, at least in the short run! I may be joining you if not in Hell then in Purgatory at least!

atheistgirl · #28 May 30, '12, 3:50 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyrey

The fact that some kill themselves (and their children) because they are deluded does not mean many others don't do the same because they are brainwashed into thinking we are naked apes and consequently see no point in living. .

Do you have any references to someone killing themselves and their children because they are naked apes??

People of every faith, and none, kill themselves, and their families, because they see no point in living.

I'm aware of fathers, recently divorced, who picked up their children at visitation and ran a pipe into the car, killing them.

I'm aware of women, who lost custody, and did the same.

Several cases in Europe of people killing themselves recently because they could no longer cope with the prospect of financial ruin and the shame it would bring on their families. (An Italian man, of a good Catholic family, found hanging by the neck by his children on their return from school as he was about to lose their shop, his faith seeming no buffer to the despair he felt).

Death by Cop is still very popular.

I don't blame religion, or lack of religion.

I suggest however, these people, religious and non religious, are mentally ill.

Sarah x

Nicea325 · #29 May 30, '12, 3:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyjones

Do we Christians worship God due to obligation or the astounding fact that we recognize God?. Does God need worship and why?. I worship God out of shear majesty and the awesomeness of his glory.

God does NOT need anything from us or anything or anyone.

Sample · #30 May 30, '12, 5:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyjones

The religious life can prevent these harmful activities. Where does the desire to be moral come from in a person of no faith. Why be good to somebody? Does it just "feel" good? And if it does feel good, why?

1. Perhaps that's true for some people yes, but then there is that little paradox of US prisons historically overflowing with Christians (source/1997 Fed Bureau of Prisons). And certainly you aren't suggesting that there are absolutely no other methods besides religions to curb harmful activities. There are non-faith based twelve step programs that help countless people with myriads of vices. And finally, some religious claims are just plain false, so no matter their apparent effectiveness at curbing harmful behavior, I couldn't in good conscience condone lies when better alternatives abound. After all, the organization run by Minister Farrakhan ostensibly has programs for troubled youth and so does the Sunni extremist group Hamas.

2. I suspect the desire comes from an experience common in most people: empathy. Being able to intuit the sufferings of others resulting from one's own action gives a healthy mind pause before acting in a manner they themself wouldn't like. People who completely lack a moral impulse derived from empathy are called psychopaths and are not mentally healthy. Some speculate that is because biblical Eve ate an apple; medical science however, investigates genetics, trauma, or other physical disorders that cause impaired mental function.

3. There are of course, evolutionary explanations that address the building blocks of altruism and the feelings of well-being but unfortunately evolution and its mechanism of action, natural selection, is on the Index of Forbidden topics in this forum.

Thank you very much for those perfectly reasonable questions. I look forward to seeing you around the forums.