Canada: "Catholic Leaders Line Up against 'Gay-Straight Alliances' in Catholic Schools"

[mdgspencer]

The Catholic Church in Ontario has been fighting against the Ontario government's plan to pass legislation requiring that what some Catholics call gay clubs be set up in the Catholic schools there. The Archbishop of Toronto has publicly said that the government is "overriding the deeply held beliefs" of Catholics and making "religion a second-class right." The Catholics there have been negotiating a compromise with the government, but the Ontario government just now has thrown out any compromise in this matter with the Catholics in Ontario, and intends passing this legislation. There are 1,600 Catholic schools in Ontario; 13,400,000 people live in Ontario. See
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Ca...980/story.html

[SaintPatrick333]

Praying for Canada to come to the Truth in Christ and His Church. I hope all of Canada's Catholics unite and resist this measure in a similar fashion to what some americans are doing here to stand with their Bishops against the evil obama administration.

[George Stegmeir]

Can't the Church sue the Canadian Government? I know that Canada does not have a written Constitution, as does the US, but I though Freedom of Religion was somehow covered under English Common Law.
For All of you in the US, see how lucky we are to have he Bill of Rights in our Constitution?...Even though Obama and his ilk have attempted to violate both the First and the Second Amendments!

[Trebor135]

Originally Posted by SaintPatrick333

Praying for Canada to come to the Truth in Christ and His Church. I hope all of Canada's Catholics unite and resist this measure in a similar fashion to what some americans are doing here to stand with their Bishops against the evil obama administration.

Please do pray for my province, and country, to do a 180. The article fortunately lacked an overt bias against Catholics, but the comments below were so intellectually sub-par (with talk of the evils supposedly done in the name of religion and comment on someone's purportedly low IQ) that I could only read a handful.

We are in desperate need of a spiritual revival. Devout Africans, please come. Holy Spirit, please come.

[Jeffrey]

Hopefully they don't have to do that... seems to me tho if it does pass... better off closing the school IMO.

Originally Posted by mdgspencer

The Catholic Church in Ontario has been fighting against the Ontario government's plan to pass legislation requiring that what some Catholics call gay clubs be set up in the Catholic schools there. The Archbishop of Toronto has publicly said that the government is "overriding the deeply held beliefs" of Catholics and making "religion a second-class right." The Catholics there have been negotiating a compromise with the government, but the Ontario government just now has thrown out any compromise in this matter with the Catholics in Ontario, and intends passing this legislation. There are 1,600 Catholic schools in Ontario; 13,400,000 people live in Ontario. See
www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Catholic+school+boards+review+legal+opti ons+government+insists+Straight/6689980/story.html

[Estevao]

Home schooling it is, then.

I pray for the kids subjected to the brainwashing that goes on in today's public school. I experienced it myself and I can see it's only gotten worse.

We can already see how this case would play out in the supreme court. Free speech in Canada has already been taken away using torturous logic (Regina v. Keegstra; Regina v. Andrews), giving way to human rights tribunals which have persecuted a Christian Albertan preacher from preaching orthodox Christian and biblical views. Now freedom of religion will be struck down in favor of "equality", because equality means you HAVE to have a certain alliance to attack some nebulous enemy that tolerant anti-bullying activists like Dan "pansy-***" Savage will define for us. (By the way, it's okay to say pansy-*** to Christians, but if you say it to some effeminate gay kid that's hate speech, of course I am using it in the context that Savage used it, so no hate speech, obviously)

By the way, for any americans reading this - our constitution starts by first saying that we don't really have any rights, only what the courts can deem to be "justifiable in a free and democratic society." Things like freedom of speech come AFTER and are SUBSERVIENT to that.

[_Abyssinia]

BREAKING: McGuinty ‘anti-bullying’ gay rights Bill 13 passes 65-36

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bre...3-passes-65-36

Are Catholic schools really going to have these alliances in schools? Why not just get out of government funding?

[Lokabrenna]

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

BREAKING: McGuinty ‘anti-bullying’ gay rights Bill 13 passes 65-36

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bre...3-passes-65-36

Are Catholic schools really going to have these alliances in schools? Why not just get out of government funding?

Historical reasons, mostly. Catholic schools were basically part of the deal to get the support of French Canadians (mostly Catholic) and reassure them that English Canadians (mostly Protestant) weren't going to trample all over their rights. It's one of those things that just stayed with us even though it isn't really needed anymore.

I'd certainly support Catholic schools getting out of government funding, but I don't think that's going to happen.

[_Abyssinia]

Originally Posted by Lokabrenna

Historical reasons, mostly. Catholic schools were basically part of the deal to get the support of French Canadians (mostly Catholic) and reassure them that English Canadians (mostly Protestant) weren't going to trample all over their rights. It's one of those things that just stayed with us even though it isn't really needed anymore.

I'd certainly support Catholic schools getting out of government funding, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Catholic schools now are being forced to abide with such alliances. With government funding Catholic schools are not free to teach as they want on all matters. If Catholic schools can survive in America without government funding I do not see why they would not in Canada.

[JMJSHJ]

Originally Posted by George Stegmeir

Can't the Church sue the Canadian Government? I know that Canada does not have a written Constitution, as does the US, but I though Freedom of Religion was somehow covered under English Common Law.
For All of you in the US, see how lucky we are to have he Bill of Rights in our Constitution?...Even though Obama and his ilk have attempted to violate both the First and the Second Amendments!

We do have a Constitution and a Charter of Rights. It includes Freedom of Religion but like with all court cases it can be costly and there is no guarantee of success. Also in Canada we have our Catholic schools FULLY FUNDED by the Taxpayers who choose to fund it as opposed to the Public School system. Catholic education was written into our Constitution. Premier McGuinty is like a Pelosi type Catholic here.

[catholicanne]

I'll pray for those children.

[_Abyssinia]

Catholic schools will follow Ontario's gay-straight club requirement

Catholic schools in the province of Ontario will abide by a law requiring them to allow “Gay-Straight Alliance” clubs, despite concerns about the loss of religious freedom.

“The Assembly of Catholic Bishops of Ontario has expressed serious concerns regarding certain aspects of this legislation, as have numerous other individual citizens and groups,” said Cardinal Thomas C. Collins of Toronto, after the Ontario Legislature passed the measure known as Bill 13.

“Recognizing that the 'Accepting Schools Act' is now the law, Catholic partners will seek, as we have always done, in a way that is in accord with our faith, to foster safe and welcoming school communities,” Cardinal Collins said in a June 5 statement.

The cardinal reaffirmed that bullying “in any form, is unacceptable.” He also stressed the Church's commitment “to welcome every person with love and respect.”

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/ne...ub-requirement

Catholic schools should refuse government funding before accepting these clubs should be in schools.

[Gift from God]

I have long believed we shouldn't have these funded Catholic schools in Ontario. For non-Canadians on this forum, here's what happens in a Catholic high school; a prayer before the lunch hour, one religion class for one semester for the whole school year, and in some schools you can opt out of religion in grade twelve if you do philosophy. In some schools you can also study world religions in the senior years (grades 11 and 12). Religious teaching should come from family and church, not school.

Originally Posted by George Stegmeir

Can't the Church sue the Canadian Government?

No, for two reasons. The first is this is not from the Canadian government, it's the Ontario government. The second is the Churches have absolutely no control or power over Catholic schools.

Originally Posted by George Stegmeir

I though Freedom of Religion was somehow covered under English Common Law.

Freedom of religion is constitutionally established and reaffirmed by the Constitution Act of 1982. But this isn't really a freedom of religion issue since they are still considered public schools and bound by government regulation

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

Are Catholic schools really going to have these alliances in schools? Why not just get out of government funding?

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

Catholic schools should refuse government funding before accepting these clubs should be in schools.

Schools cannot refuse funding. They are run by school boards that receive billions on funding from the government. Refusing funding would entail thousands losing their jobs and thousands of students needing new schools. In short, it would be a catastrophe.

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

Catholic schools now are being forced to abide with such alliances. With government funding Catholic schools are not free to teach as they want on all matters. If Catholic schools can survive in America without government funding I do not see why they would not in Canada.

It's a constitutional matter. During Confederation the public schools were under Protestant influence and Catholic parents did not want their children to be influenced by Protestantism. This was at a time when Protestants demeaned and discriminated against Catholics. As a compromise, it was constitutionally entrenched in the BNA Act that certain provinces would fund Catholic schools. But since we don't live in such an age anymore and schools are now secular, they shouldn't be funded at all. A majority of Ontarians want funding to cease. But this would most likely have to be accomplished through a constitutional convention.

[Phemie]

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

Catholic schools now are being forced to abide with such alliances. With government funding Catholic schools are not free to teach as they want on all matters. If Catholic schools can survive in America without government funding I do not see why they would not in Canada.

Easy to say but not so easy to do.

I doubt very much that Catholic parents in great numbers would build and support Catholic schools - they are just too used to having them paid for. Their grandparents might have but now, when all that's required to attend a Catholic school is a baptismal certificate, many would not bother if they had to pay for a private Catholic school.

My own province did away with Catholic education in 1998. Prior to that Churches had governance of schools which were established as

• Schools operated for children of all denominations [called Inter-denominational], and
• Schools operated for children of a single denomination [called uni-denominational]. Predominantly Catholic but also Pentecostal and Salvation Army.

This was changed to

• In and for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Legislature shall have exclusive authority to make laws in relation to education but shall provide for courses in religion that are not specific to a religious denomination.
• Religious observances shall be permitted in a school where requested by parents.

It was done after two referenda, one in 95 where only by 55% did a majority say "yes, change to a non-denominational system" & one in 97 where 79% responded yes. As one trustee put it, " in many cases, people's faith did not rally them to speak up, or (it was the case) that political or other affiliations trumped Faith." That same trustee has spent the last 14 years telling Catholics in other provinces not to be complacent.

Once they were given the go-ahead by the population it required changing the Terms of Union and that required a constitutional amendment and the approval of 90% of the provinces which they got without a problem. At the time the school boards either closed Catholic schools or took them over.

We are a large province geographically but our population is only ~600K. There are 3 private Catholic schools in the entire province, 1 in each of the two major cities and one in a very small community that chose to go private rather than see their school closed and their children bussed to a larger center. In all 3 cases, the infrastructure was in place and did not require anything to be built. Such is not the case in towns like ours.

The first of the city schools had been a Catholic School since 1856, built right after the Cathedral was consecrated. The gov't closed it in 1998. The Archdiocese owned the buildings and a year later, due to strong parental demand and support from the Jesuits, the school reopened as a private fee-paying school with a Jesuit as it's president. 13 years later it still only has an enrolment of 360 in a city of 165K (~40% Catholic). We had more kids than that in our two Catholic schools and we are a town with only 1500 Catholics.

It's a sad fact that many Catholics just don't care. The even sadder thing is that catechesis, which now was put in the parents' hands, is often just not happening. The parents are the product of 9 or 12 years of Catholic education that taught them very little and they are totally incapable of transmitting the Faith to their children, they don't know the basics of it and they aren't interested in learning. So for now, we get kids coming to us for preparation for First Communion who may not have been in church since they were baptized, who don't know the basic three prayers and in some instances don't even know the sign of the cross. But their parents bring them for this 'rite of passage' (rather than 'sacrament'), we give them 6 sessions of preparation, they make their First Communion and we don't see 50% of them again.

Our best and, for a long time, only catechist was the Catholic woman who taught in the Inter-denominational school system and whose children attended the school where she taught. When she first came here, she had to teach catechism to her own kids to prepare them for the sacraments so she volunteered to prepare the children of other parents whose children were going to the non-Catholic schools (due mainly to language). She continued doing so for 14 years. But unlike in the US, here there is no requirement that anyone be trained to be a catechist. You volunteer, you're a catechist. Few volunteer and, of those that do, fewer still are capable of 'transmitting the Faith' since they don't know it.

[Gift from God]

Originally Posted by Phemie

Easy to say but not so easy to do.

I doubt very much that Catholic parents in great numbers would build and support Catholic schools - they are just too used to having them paid for. Their grandparents might have but now, when all that's required to attend a Catholic school is a baptismal certificate, many would not bother if they had to pay for a private Catholic school.

Well said, all those schools will disappear if they are privatized