Eastern Catholicism's Relationship with Western Theology and Tradition - Page 3

ByzCathCantor · #31 May 29, '12, 10:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

Yes disloyal for not being Latins.

Seems to be the prevailing opinion here of late.

... and where did we leave off in our ecumenical dialogue with the Orthodox?

Hesychios · #32 May 29, '12, 10:33 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor

So the Eastern Catholic Churches have been systematically disloyal ...

Makes me think of flies in ointment, I don't know why.

Dang you guys ...

Josephene · #33 May 29, '12, 10:33 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor

So the Eastern Catholic Churches have been systematically disloyal ...

Let us not ignore parts of that sentence ; it says ' protection againts temptations to become disloyal .' : as to the Churches or persons being disloyal , The Lord alone is the judge and thankfully , as a reverse of that , there are possibly many in Orthodox and other churches, who already do or would cherish the Dogmas of The Church , to varying levels or are not against same and thus are in better communion than we might judge !

ByzCathCantor · #34 May 29, '12, 10:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephene

Let us not ignore parts of that sentence ; it says ' protection againts temptations to become disloyal .' : as to the Churches or persons being disloyal , The Lord alone is the judge and thankfully , as a reverse of that , there are possibly many in Orthodox and other churches, who already do or would cherish the Dogmas of The Church , to varying levels or are not against same and thus are in better communion than we might judge !

So a celebate priesthood is necessary "protection [against] temptations to become disloyal". Very intriguing.

Yet, the Orthodox (with married priests among their clergy) may be doing a better job of embracing the dogmas of the Church. Equally intriguing.

And yes, the Lord alone is judge, and we can be thankful of that (or so we hope).

Josephene · #35 May 29, '12, 11:22 am

:
Please reread the part of the sentence below -

" for others , it may be the reluctanace to accept the Dogmas , even for fear of appearing disloyal to the Orthodox traditions , whereas embracing same could be what gives the protection against undue temptations , to become disloyal so easily ! "

Peace ![/quote]

Hope that would answer again , the issue you are raising , unless it is intentionally wanting to misrepresent words ; if not, pay attention to the mention about the Dogmas as protection !

ByzCathCantor · #36 May 29, '12, 11:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephene

:
Please reread the part of the sentence below -

" for others , it may be the reluctanace to accept the Dogmas , even for fear of appearing disloyal to the Orthodox traditions , whereas embracing same could be what gives the protection against undue temptations , to become disloyal so easily ! "

Hope that would answer again , the issue you are raising , unless it is intentionally wanting to misrepresent words ; if not, pay attention to the mention about the Dogmas as protection !

I truly have no intention of intentionally misrepresenting anyone.

However, this still seems to strongly suggest that the Eastern Catholic Churches are guilty of some kind of systematic error, and/or that their traditions and disciplines have or can lead to such. This IMHO very much misrepresents the witness and character of my Church.

You must understand how this sounds to an Eastern Catholic (or fellow Orthodox Christian, for that matter). In charity, please try to see that what you suggest here is potentially hurtful to fellow Catholics who, in many cases, have suffered greatly to remain faithful to the Catholic Church.

Yet, perhaps I am incapable of understanding your point, and will leave it at that.

S'Bohom!

Cristiano · #37 May 29, '12, 11:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephene

:
Please reread the part of the sentence below -

" for others , it may be the reluctanace to accept the Dogmas , even for fear of appearing disloyal to the Orthodox traditions , whereas embracing same could be what gives the protection against undue temptations , to become disloyal so easily ! "

Peace !

Hope that would answer again , the issue you are raising , unless it is intentionally wanting to misrepresent words ; if not, pay attention to the mention about the Dogmas as protection !

Please remember that dogmas are a western solution to western theological problems.

Phillip Rolfes · #38 May 29, '12, 1:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcointin

/popcorn

Indeed. I'll be watching this with a nice cup of tea in one hand.

Phillip Rolfes · #39 May 29, '12, 1:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

Please remember that dogmas are a western solution to western theological problems.

This isn't completely true. The dogmas that are currently divisive between the East and West are, in fact, Western solutions to Western theological problems, as you say. But not all dogmas are. In fact, the central dogmas of our Faith are actually Eastern solutions to Eastern problems. The Creed itself, recited every Sunday at the Mass/Divine Liturgy/Qurbono, etc. was actually drawn up at an Eastern Council in response to Eastern issues. It was then slightly revised at yet another Eastern Council, responding once again to Eastern theological issues. The West did little more than put their stamp of approval on the final product.

ThatOneGuy92 · #40 May 29, '12, 2:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes

Indeed. I'll be watching this with a nice cup of tea in one hand.

Nothing quite like a nice cuppa, is there Phillip?

Phillip Rolfes · #41 May 29, '12, 2:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy92

Nothing quite like a nice cuppa, is there Phillip?

Yes indeed. A nice cuppa tea and an entertaining theological/historical argument and I'm set for the week!

ThatOneGuy92 · #42 May 29, '12, 2:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes

Yes indeed. A nice cuppa tea and an entertaining theological/historical argument and I'm set for the week!

Set for the week? I say, good sir, 'tis but a daily occurrence for me.

Phillip Rolfes · #43 May 29, '12, 6:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy92

Set for the week? I say, good sir, 'tis but a daily occurrence for me.

Hahahaha!!! For me it depends on the discussions going on. But the ones of late have been good.

ThatOneGuy92 · #44 May 29, '12, 6:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes

Hahahaha!!! For me it depends on the discussions going on. But the ones of late have been good.

Verily so.

Josephene · #45 Jun 2, '12, 11:07 am

For those who might be tired of the tea and popcorn

, thought it would be good to move onto Wine and Meat

..esp. in light of this article , which might have some special relevance in the East- West context too ..

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesqua...lord-one-table

Could it not be likely , that The Spirit even allowed Peter to face what he did , in Antioch , as an example of caution , to the undue pressure and fear exerted by the flock , esp. in some Eastern Churches, that keep their leaders from taking the necessary steps to be in communion , with those who profess similar faith ..

This seems applicable for the Protestant churches too , who too move away from true communion of the Lord's grace and its effects of holiness and trust in the Lord's Church ,from pressures from their flock too .

And the enemy uses same , to make many to distort the truth of what being in communion is about , and argumnets such as above appear , to increase resentments , instead of recognising that the very persons who feel being kept outside of communion are choosing to do so themselves !

The Lord asks us to 'chew' on His Body ..drink His Blood ..such as to chew in His mercy and power and bring the Precious Blood of His merciful ,cleansing love into every situation ..again and again, such that , as we chew in the various areas of our pains and divisions , our past failures ,resentments , painful memories , we are also chewing in His mercy , into these events and persons , to see them with compassion , repentance , gratitude .. so that the hatreds do not take hold in the Body ..

instead , the loving forgiving power of The Spirit ..

and The Church rightly tell us that inorder for such to happen , at the best possible level in a manner that would benefit the whole Church and all others too , such and such are the dispositions needed - including trust in The Lord, enough to know that He can give us the grace ,to put trust in His words of absolution , if we have broken our realtionship ..that those who have chosen carnal lust over capacity to be chaste and strong , in His grace , have the grace work on those areas , may be through spiritual communion, before they come to Him , with distrust ..and so on ..

so that we get to be filled with the song of praise and gratitude , a little slice of heaven,, to be able to rejoice with an all perfect Mother ..in the company of angels and saints ..

to say to our Lord again -

Jesus , we trust in You ..and may that trust help us to ever increase the appreciation of the Banquet of all that goodness !