Does Protestantism influence Catholicism?

PeterJohn · #1 May 30, '12, 6:55 pm

1.Does Protestantism influence Catholicism? In your opinion HAS Protestantism influenced the Catholic church?
2.Do Protestants influence catholic laypersons?
3.Does Protestantism change how the catholic laypeople view worship?

IrishRush · #2 May 30, '12, 8:12 pm

I don't think so really, but you wouldn't be able to prove that by the music we had at the end of mass last week. People were actually clapping along. The members of the choir were doing little boogie moves to the music too. I was a tad concerned. I thought I had accidentally gone to a Charismatic Baptist or Pentecostal church by mistake.

mab23 · #3 May 30, '12, 8:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishRush

I don't think so really, but you wouldn't be able to prove that by the music we had at the end of mass last week. People were actually clapping along. The members of the choir were doing little boogie moves to the music too. I was a tad concerned. I thought I had accidentally gone to a Charismatic Baptist or Pentecostal church by mistake.

LOL ,

ive been to Protestant and non-denom church

it just feels wierd, almost like watching a show

doesn't feel like worship - I also notice protestants or non-denominationals like to invite to bible studies

**JRKH** · #4 May 30, '12, 8:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterJohn

1.Does Protestantism influence Catholicism? In your opinion
HAS Protestantism influenced the Catholic church?

In what way?
In a very general and broad sense it is impossible to say that Protestantism hasn't influenced Catholicism in some way
Protestantism certainly has influenced some writings and explanations of teaching, but just as certainly it has not influenced the Church's teachings.

Quote:

2.Do Protestants influence catholic laypersons?

All the time...

Quote:

3.Does Protestantism change how the catholic laypeople view worship?

Sure - but of course the influence in this area can be either positive or negative.

Peace
James

lerapt78 · #5 May 30, '12, 8:43 pm

I haven't observed any Protestant influence in any of the parishes I've attended.

I selected "not really" for the poll on whether or not Protestant friends have influenced me. My first exposure to Protestant friends was at the public high school I attended. The only Protestants that were outspoken about their religion were the Baptists, and unfortunately our first discussion of religion came up when I explained to them why I wasn't buying the meat lunch in the cafeteria on Lenten Fridays. It started with them questioning me about the Biblical imperatives to abstain from meat, then it went on to why was I wearing a Crucifix instead of a cross, etc. At the time, I was not prepared to answer these questions, so I sometimes felt under attack.

However, one of my closest friends now is Baptist and he is the only friend with whom I can discuss Christianity deeply. He's a great guy, and often invites me to his churches group activities. There's definitely an anti-Catholic sentiment in the group, but they are good people and I would prefer their company over secularists any day.

They do not influence me spiritually though, as I already find love for Christ (and a whole lot more) in my Catholic faith.

Jeanne S · #6 May 30, '12, 8:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishRush

I don't think so really, but you wouldn't be able to prove that by the music we had at the end of mass last week. People were actually clapping along. The members of the choir were doing little boogie moves to the music too. I was a tad concerned. I thought I had accidentally gone to a Charismatic Baptist or Pentecostal church by mistake.

I feel your pain

Hadrianus · #7 May 30, '12, 8:53 pm

The question asked and then the actual options available do not add up to the same thing.

When asked "have Protestant friends influenced me?" I answered very slightly. But my answer to the thread question would be "Yes, Protestantism has had a huge influence upon Catholicism in the past 40 years. and it is my impression that most Catholics now effectively think like Protestants."

**thistle** · #8 May 30, '12, 10:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hadrianus

The question asked and then the actual options available do not add up to the same thing.

When asked "have Protestant friends influenced me?" I answered very slightly. But my answer to the thread question would be "Yes, Protestantism has had a huge influence upon Catholicism in the past 40 years. and it is my impression that most Catholics now effectively think like Protestants."

I totally disagree with you.
I have been Catholic for the past 20 years. Before that I was a born and brought up Methodist for the first 44 years of my life. I absolutely reject your claim and wonder how you can make a statement like that. Have you talked to all 1.2 billion Catholics?

**JRKH** · #9 May 31, '12, 4:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hadrianus
The question asked and then the actual options available do not add up to the same thing.

When asked "have Protestant friends influenced me?" I answered very slightly. But my answer to the thread question would be "Yes, Protestantism has had a huge influence upon Catholicism in the past 40 years. and it is my impression that most Catholics now effectively think like Protestants."

I totally disagree with you.
I have been Catholic for the past 20 years. Before that I was a born and brought up Methodist for the first 44 years of my life. I absolutely reject your claim and wonder how you can make a statement like that. Have you talked to all 1.2 billion Catholics?

Thistle,
If I my jump in here for just a minute...
I agree that the statement by Hadrianus is not supportable in the technical sense for as you suggest - it is not likely that he has talked to the "all" Catholics. However, I think that we should also recognize an unspoken qualifier often present in such statements.
Inserting the qualifier just before the bolded section of his statement we might have:
"Based on my experience..." Such experience may come from talking with people, reading, general impressions within a culture etc.
If, as I suspect, Hadrianus lives either in the U.S. or western Europe, his impressions of Catholics in those culture might be very different from where you live...In the U.S. for example the term "Cafeteria Catholic" is applied to people ( a sizable number) who seem to "pick and choose" what Church teachings to accept or reject. This can very easily be seen as a "protestant influence". So I can easily see where Hadrianus is coming from in making his statement.

Peace
James

BListon · #10 May 31, '12, 4:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterJohn

1.Does Protestantism influence Catholicism? In your opinion HAS Protestantism influenced the Catholic church?
2.Do Protestants influence catholic laypersons?
3.Does Protestantism change how the catholic laypeople view worship?

Not really. I would go so far as to say it's the other way around.

**thistle** · #11 May 31, '12, 6:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRKH

Thistle,
If I my jump in here for just a minute...
I agree that the statement by Hadrianus is not supportable in the technical sense for as you suggest - it is not likely that he has talked to the "all" Catholics. However, I think that we should also recognize an unspoken qualifier often present in such statements.
Inserting the qualifier just before the bolded section of his statement we might have:
"Based on my experience..." Such experience may come from talking with people, reading, general impressions within a culture etc.
If, as I suspect, Hadrianus lives either in the U.S. or western Europe, his impressions of Catholics in those culture might be very different from where you live...In the U.S. for example the term "Cafeteria Catholic" is applied to people ( a sizable number) who seem to "pick and choose" what Church teachings to accept or reject. This can very easily be seen as a "protestant influence". So I can easily see where Hadrianus is coming from in making his statement.

Peace
James

I'm from the UK. I have also lived on continental Europe for several years. I've lived in Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong and Philippines) for more than 20 years. I travelled extensively in my job in Europe, Asia and the US before I retired.
I would refute the claim made by Hadrianus completely.

**JRKH** · #12 May 31, '12, 8:11 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistle

I'm from the UK. I have also lived on continental Europe for several years. I've lived in Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong and Philippines) for more than 20 years. I travelled extensively in my job in Europe, Asia and the US before I retired.
I would refute the claim made by Hadrianus completely.

It is not my intent to "pick a fight", but if I my point out...
It strikes me that the comment you just made above is just as problematic as the one Hadrianus made to which you took exception....

Hadrianus stated:

it is my impression that most Catholics now effectively think like Protestants."

Note that his statement is an "impression" of "most" Catholics.
Your response to him was:

I absolutely reject your claim and wonder how you can make a statement like that. Have you talked to all 1.2 billion Catholics?

So - I ask you - did Hadianus make a "Claim" of some "fact" or did he offer an "impression" based on his limited observation.
If he made a claim of some fact then certainly you could challenge him on the extent of the research (talking to Catholics) upon which the claim can be made.

Now you have offered to:

...refute the claim made by Hadrianus completely

That would be fine if:
a) Hadrianus had in fact made a claim and
b) You are willing to abide by the same standard you wish to apply to Hadrianus...
So- to use your own words..."Have you talked to all 1.2 billion Catholics?"...so as to be able to completely refute his claim (which isn't a claim but an impression.

Peace
James

**thistle** · #13 May 31, '12, 3:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRKH

It is not my intent to "pick a fight", but if I my point out...
It strikes me that the comment you just made above is just as problematic as the one Hadrianus made to which you took exception....

Hadrianus stated:

it is my impression that most Catholics now effectively think like Protestants."

Note that his statement is an "impression" of "most" Catholics.
Your response to him was:

I absolutely reject your claim and wonder how you can make a statement like that. Have you talked to all 1.2 billion Catholics?

So - I ask you - did Hadianus make a "Claim" of some "fact" or did he offer an "impression" based on his limited observation.
If he made a claim of some fact then certainly you could challenge him on the extent of the research (talking to Catholics) upon which the claim can be made.

Now you have offered to:

...refute the claim made by Hadrianus completely

That would be fine if:
a) Hadrianus had in fact made a claim and
b) You are willing to abide by the same standard you wish to apply to Hadrianus...
So- to use your own words..."Have you talked to all 1.2 billion Catholics?"...so as to be able to completely refute his claim (which isn't a claim but an impression.

Peace
James

The onus is on him and not me. I did not make the original claim. Trying to downplay the claim because the word impression was used does not change anything.

PeterJohn · #14 May 31, '12, 4:07 pm

I see my brothers and sisters picking and choosing catholic teachings, sometimes not going to church everysunday and taking about a golden rule based on the love of Jesus that I call the "Love is all you need" philosophy. We all were raised catholic since birth and my parents are still very devout, participating, growing Catholics. I left the CC at 19 y/o because my deep high school studies into physics led me to atheism. 6 years of further deepening my knowledge of physics as well as quantum physics I came to realize there in fact WAS a intelligent design and thus a designer. So I started church hopping, Wesleyan, Baptist as well as subscribing to a Pentecostal radio minister I found my way home. Now having seen a few walks of protestant Christianity I see in my own humble opinion that Protestantism has influenced American culture, thus influencing Catholics living in America. I struggle with blaming the "softening" *of christian teachings since the Lambeth Confrence on Protestantism. I fear I am may be dead wrong about this but I welcome some help on my theory or against it. Catholics see Christians in the USA as brothers in partial fullness of truth, but brothers non the less. And as brothers they "soften" our resolve to stay true to the ancient teachings of the Holy Catholic Church. I could go into details but that's another post.

**JRKH** · #15 May 31, '12, 7:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistle

The onus is on him and not me. I did not make the original claim. Trying to downplay the claim because the word impression was used does not change anything.

I Love this.....

Words mean things. You can't just decide that a person's use of a particular word really means something else. I've had people do this to me before...."Well you say this but you mean that...", kind of stuff and it offends me deeply so perhaps I am a bit sensitive about it.
This is especially true when someone says, like you have above, that it doesn't matter what word was used...it really means what they want it to mean....
I'm sorry but in this case, you are wrong. The man used a specific word that has a specific meaning and the word you want to substitute does not, in any way, share the same meaning. Go ahead - look them up and see if impression and claim could be considered synonyms

He made no claim....He shared an impression....So
a) There is no "claim" for you to refute and
b) There is no onus on him to defend a claim he never made.

Anyway - I have said my piece on this matter.
I believe you to be an honest and sincere person who wishes to both communicate and understand others clearly. Therefore, I believe that once you have taken time to reflect, you will see the dangers of substituting your own words for those used in another person's post.

Peace
James