How many people were killed in the crusades and inquisitions?

[InSearchofGrace]

Originally Posted by Hokomai

Odd as it may seem to you I am opposed to all killing and oppression carried out for religious reasons, including the inquisition, the crusades, the Muslim wars of religious conquest, the Hindu and Muslim attacks during partition in India/Pakistan, the genocide of British Jews at York, the executions carried out by Thomas More, the Catholic fascist genocide in WWll Croatia, the burning of witches in America, 9/11 and the contemporary killing of Egyptian Christians by Muslims.

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Your post and picture offering reminded me of this written by David G. Meyers on spiritual pursuits:

Even the unbelieving skeptic Voltaire recognized the faith-morality connection: "I want my attorney, my tailor, my servants, even my wife to believe in God," he said. "Then I shall be robbed and cuckolded less often." And consider: Who is most likely to sponsor food pantries and soup kitchens? Who took medicine into the Third World and opened hospitals? Who sheltered orphans? Who spread literacy and established schools and universities? Who led movements to abolish the slave trade, end apartheid, and establish civil rights? Who most often adopts children? The answer to all these questions is the same.

Let no one get smug. As Steven Pinker noted, faith sometimes provides justification for greed, war, bigotry, and terrorism. The Christian writer Madeleine L'Engle acknowledged as much: "Christians have given Christianity a bad name" (and some Muslims and Jews have done the same for their faiths). No wonder that Stephen Jay Gould could write that much of his "fascination" with religion "lies in the stunning historical paradox that organized religion has fostered, throughout western history, both the most unspeakable horrors and the most heartrending examples of human goodness." The "insane courage" that enabled the horror of 9/11 "came from religion," noted Richard Dawkins. If "a martyr's death is equivalent to pressing the hyperspace button and zooming through a wormhole to another universe, it can make the world a very dangerous place," he concluded. Although the worst genocides have mostly come from irreligious tyrants (Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot) who did not value fellow humans as "God's children," religion's record is indeed mixed. Still, on balance, the evidence now suggests that faith more often breeds health, happiness, coping, character, and compassion.

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by Hokomai

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We don't have to imagine no religion. We've seen the results: 169,202,000 Murdered http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

[Ion]

Far less than the number of abortions...(which is continually growing...)
Far less than the number of people murdered in WWII...(other wars to be expected...)

How comes atheists looks to "forget" that nazi/communism are beliefs rooted in atheism?

[cerad2]

Originally Posted by Ion

How comes atheists looks to "forget" that nazi/communism are beliefs rooted in atheism?

So from a morality point of view, religion and atheism is pretty much the same? Being a Christian doesn't make much difference when it come time to rescue the holy lands from the heathens? One would think that super religious folks with an all powerful benevolent being on their side could come up with a better solution to such problems.

[Tantum ergo]

Originally Posted by cerad2

So from a morality point of view, religion and atheism is pretty much the same? Being a Christian doesn't make much difference when it come time to rescue the holy lands from the heathens? One would think that super religious folks with an all powerful benevolent being on their side could come up with a better solution to such problems.

Point A: Human beings have free will. Having God on our side doesn't mean that we can't make bad decisions.
Point B: We don't know the whole story yet.
For example, picture a man with a raging leg infection. He comes into the hospital and the leg has to be lanced, the purulence drained, the wound dressed, antibiotics given. No matter how painful the infection is, getting it treated is going to feel horrible. If the ONLY thing we ever saw was the man in the hospital, getting his leg cut, crying out in agony, writhing in pain, and if all we knew was --this man was lying on a bed not bothering ANYBODY, when ALL OF A SUDDEN a man came in and CUT AND HURT HIM --it looked like there was NO reason for it, and then bing, that's the end, so it looks like NOTHING GOOD came of it. . .well, we'd probably think all sorts of 'bad thoughts' about the mean man who cut.

We don't KNOW what the whole story is going to be at the end. We don't know if the little bits we see, like coming in with absolutely no knowledge of the case at hand, or maybe even garbled knowledge, are going to be 'all there is'.

What if, in the story above, we found ourselves at the door of a room, and as we went in, a man whispered to us, "Watch out. Bad things happen in this place. I have seen nothing but misery and hurt happening when this man in a white coat comes in.'

We'd have SOME 'knowledge', right? But it wouldn't necessarily be CORRECT knowledge, right? Imagine how we would feel if ALL WE KNEW about an appearance or action came from somebody who didn't have all the right facts in the first place and was feeding us wrong information.

[Ion]

Originally Posted by cerad2

So from a morality point of view, religion and atheism is pretty much the same? Being a Christian doesn't make much difference when it come time to rescue the holy lands from the heathens? One would think that super religious folks with an all powerful benevolent being on their side could come up with a better solution to such problems.

An atheist will never really understand life.
What I wanted to point to you, is that beside the guys listening Lennon and taking some dope to really fell it like that, Hitler, Stalin were real atheists who never took dope. Hitler was decorated in the WWI, and it was for his real bravery. This, or other atheisitc "goodies", didn't hold him back...

[Mary_Fleurdelis]

Originally Posted by Hokomai

the burning of witches in America

My history may be wrong, but I thought there were no witches burned in America? They were hung, I believe. In Europe, they were burned. Sorry for the OT discussion.

[Hokomai]

Originally Posted by Mary_Fleurdelis

My history may be wrong, but I thought there were no witches burned in America? They were hung, I believe. In Europe, they were burned. Sorry for the OT discussion.

You are right and I was wrong, according to ten minutes searching the net!

[Hokomai]

Originally Posted by InSearchofGrace

Your post and picture offering reminded me of this written by David G. Meyers on spiritual pursuits:

Thanks for this ISOG; I do not at all deny the idea that religion can produce compassion and act of even heroic charity, or even that it often does. I could also accept that religion has done more of this than unbelief, but I feel if the number of unbelievers continues to grow, and religion becomes the home of fewer an fewer people, any pattern in favour of religion may change. I can also accept that it may not. This would not lead me to argue for a retention of religion, but for unbelievers to recognise the good that occurs because, rather than in spite of, religion, and attempt to learn from this. This is something I already try to do - and is one benefit from hanging out on CAF.

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by Mary_Fleurdelis

My history may be wrong, but I thought there were no witches burned in America? They were hung, I believe. In Europe, they were burned. Sorry for the OT discussion.

That's correct. 19 were hanged, and one was "pressed", i.e., stones piled onto him [I think it was a man] until he died.

[Mickey Finn]

Originally Posted by sedonaman

That's correct. 19 were hanged, and one was "pressed", i.e., stones piled onto him [I think it was a man] until he died.

Giles Corey, was his name. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...scoreypage.htm

ATB

[Mickey Finn]

Originally Posted by Mickey Finn

All told? The low number is 1,000,000. (John Shertzer Hittell, "A Brief History of Culture" (1874) p.137: "In the two centuries of this warfare one million persons had been slain..." cited by White) The high number is 3,000,000.( Robertson, John M., "A Short History of Christianity" (1902) p.278. Cited by White
The various conflicts spaned approx. 236 years. Many different armies, and populations were involved.

Who won? The people who publish "History" books. I thnk..

ATB

These numbers cover the various crusades alone.

[cerad2]

Originally Posted by Ion

An atheist will never really understand life.
What I wanted to point to you, is that beside the guys listening Lennon and taking some dope to really fell it like that, Hitler, Stalin were real atheists who never took dope. Hitler was decorated in the WWI, and it was for his real bravery. This, or other atheisitc "goodies", didn't hold him back...

Consider posting using your native language. Sometime the translation services leave something to be desired.

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by Mickey Finn

These numbers cover the various crusades alone.

I think we are assuming something here. Does the OP question also include Christians who were killed, or just those non-Christians killed by Crusaders?

[Ion]

Originally Posted by cerad2

Consider posting using your native language. Sometime the translation services leave something to be desired.

Than you for your suggestion. This is not in the forum rules, for now. Anyway, I am glad you took the point...