Why do we need to die a physical death if our sins are forgiven?

[GodHeals]

Hi,

Why do we need to die a physical death if Jesus has forgiven our sins and death is the result of sin? Why not fly into the sky like Jesus or all be assumed like Mother Mary into heaven?

Jesus suffered death on our behalf and we die with Him, so we shouldn't have to die. Maybe that only applies to the spiritual death? Not sure if this is the verses I am thinking of Romans 6?

It seems death is the doorway to eternity, even though eternity is right now in one sense, the eternal now moment in time. Not sure how Jesus or Mother Mary go from the earth to heaven and back (Jesus descending into hell and Mary during apparitions). I guess this is all mystery or miracles.

I am not afraid to die, just doing some thinking....

Any thoughts? Thank you!
Brian

[Andre1000]

Jesus had no sins and he died too, he flyed into sky after his resurrection.
We will do it like Jesus die -> resurrection -> go to God

[cessnawag]

Wowzers philosophy!!!! .You where doing some thinking.
I would have to say our earthly bodies just get old and wore out and then die. Death is just the way to transition. I think thats just the way it is on earth, animals and plants get old and die. It could be part of the test of faith, if we saw just christians float to heaven, then religion would be easy to figure out. Or it could be that is just the way god wants to do it and Jesus and Mary are very special cases.

This is good stuff, keep thinking

[Gods_Peace]

You don't need to know this to have a relationship with your creator, however, later in your relationship with God, provided our loving creator is willing, he will reveal the answer to you.

+God Bless you in your continuing Journey with the Church+

[Blue Horizon]

Originally Posted by GodHeals

Hi,

Why do we need to die a physical death if Jesus has forgiven our sins and death is the result of sin? Why not fly into the sky like Jesus or all be assumed like Mother Mary into heaven? I am not afraid to die, just doing some thinking....

GodHeals
Sin has many meanings, levels and repercussions.
Many people think "sin" is purely "moral" - that is, only at the level of intention. Therefore if the offended party forgives (also at the level of intention) then all is well again.

This limited picture may be the cause of your question.

As the Fall makes clear, personal moral sin also impacts lowers levels.
It affects us at the level of our "substance" (it can change the very structure of our soul and body) and this can be either temporary (self repairable) or permanet (not repairable by ourselves). And because human nature is shared the sins of one may also damage others in similar ways even if completely innocent or removed from us. Finally the mineral/animal world/cosmos itself is somehow connected to the human spirit and it too gets damaged in some way as well (and not just by means of "mechanical" causality as in global warming).

Physical death (along with the general "entropy" of life in general) is a consequence of original sin. And yes, the Incarnation has forgiven/healed the sin and removed our intrinsic connection with death that was not present when Humanity was created in Adam/Eve.

There seem to be two theological reasons for explaining why we must still die physically and why "entropy" is still at work in the fabric of the cosmos.
(1) We still carry the stain of original sin which God for his own reasons has seen fit for us to endure despite us being forgiven. I liken it to a "penance" which keeps us on the straight path and reminds us of our fragility. Or again it might be like St Paul's hidden ailment which God would not heal despite his sincerest prayers so that he would not become proud wrt the great spiritual gifts he had been given by God.
(2) Temporal effects of sin: God expects us to make complete our forgiveness and give effect to genuine contriteness of heart by doing what we can to repair the damage we ourselves have caused by dint of reparation/restitution. Somehow, by lovingly and faithfully enduring the weak and painful condition we ourselves caused ourselves, we become whole and repair ourselves and each other. This is an aspect of justice that others may explain better than I.
Also, it witnesses to the fact that we are all linked by a shared human nature (we "sacrifice" for each other) where mercy/compassion is also at play. Thus the Mother of God was also bound to suffer the consequences of Adam/Eve's sin even though she was without both original sin and even the stain of original sin. She too grew old, got wrinkles, sore joints and so forth. This is due to the causality/power of our shared human nature (whether for good or bad). However her Dormition (technically I believe she did not really "die") still declares that there were some temporal effects that her purity (and God's singular grace) protected her from. This is a tangible confirmatory sign (as is Jesus's Resurrection/Ascension) that "proves" what you say - we have been forgiven/restored at all levels of the instrinsic effects of sin.

This latter paradox is known theologically as "realised eschatology" (the end times are starting now) which is well worked out in John's Gospel where we are already living the intrinsic Life that God has forgiven and given back to us (with much more added) ... its just that time hasn't caught up with that reality yet. Death no longer has its sting, its just an "illusion" we must pass through to see the Life we already possess. For the purest "creatures" (Jesus and Mary) this future "breakthrough" could not be prevented from "executing" even in there own historical lifetimes. For lesser great saints we still see small signs of this "future reality" breaking through now (i.e. into present history) as well in lesser ways (e.g. incorruption).

[Trishie]

Brian my first thought wasn't theological, it was, "I'm sure glad I don't have to take this body as it is into heaven", I'm happy for it to die at the right time, and to receive my glorified body.
The seed gives up what it has, to become a plant, even an amazing tree.
The infant gives up its known, safe confined life to enter an amazing world.
These are of course images meant to convey a perception, not arguments.


The death we will not die,
due to acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice,
is the true life and destiny of our souls.

If we welcome His salvation and live the commands of love,
then we don't die the-terrible ongoing-death-that-is-existence-without-love that we have chosen, if we refuse to live on this earth in love of God and in practical of others

[jochoa]

Originally Posted by GodHeals

Hi,

Why do we need to die a physical death if Jesus has forgiven our sins and death is the result of sin? Why not fly into the sky like Jesus or all be assumed like Mother Mary into heaven?

Jesus suffered death on our behalf and we die with Him, so we shouldn't have to die. Maybe that only applies to the spiritual death? Not sure if this is the verses I am thinking of Romans 6?

It seems death is the doorway to eternity, even though eternity is right now in one sense, the eternal now moment in time. Not sure how Jesus or Mother Mary go from the earth to heaven and back (Jesus descending into hell and Mary during apparitions). I guess this is all mystery or miracles.

I am not afraid to die, just doing some thinking....

Any thoughts? Thank you!
Brian

Excellent question, my friend, of which there are so many answers! Please consider the following concepts:

Since God gave us free will or the ability to will outside of His will, there had to be a means by which He granted this. Yet at the same time, God is continually calling and leading us closer to become one with Him. One factor of death in accordance with the initial inability to physically/tangibly know the Amazing Beauty of God and His Kingdom is it grants a person complete free will, while still calling a person to be one with God.

So a few purposes of initial physical death are:
1. Help granting free will.
2. Helps with the factor of allowing us to determine the level of unconditional love we will become.
3. Sets a time limit on which we must work (embrace the cross) to spread the means to True Love: Jesus Christ and His Kingdom.

[Prayer_Warrior]

My two cents: All mankind is born with the effects of original sin which were both eternal and temporal. Temporal punishments are physical death, increased pain in child birth, and we have to work for our bread (Gen 3). Additionally, because of Adam's sin, all mankind is sentenced to the second death (cf Rev 2:11), but for the saving grace of of God merited by Jesus Christ. The second death is eternal separation from God. As an aside, this punishment of second death is not made clear in the Old Testament scriptures (that is why Jews do not have the concept of needing to be saved). It only becomes clear under the light of Jesus Christ and the New Testament.

Jesus died to reconcile us to God so we don't have to die the second death. He did not die to remove the temporal punishments. His death was all about saving our soul, not our body. Furthermore, even though Jesus died for the forgiveness of sins, and through His work we are able to receive the Holy Spirit, we still carry a spiritual scar of original sin. This is called concupiscence which is the inclination to sin. Our nature is a fallen nature, but the more grace we receive from God-- especially through His Sacraments-- the more resistant we are to our inclination to sin. This is one area where it becomes abundantly clear why Jesus founded the Church. It is a font of God's grace which is what we need to heal our souls-- but even the Church will not take away the temporal punishments I've mentioned. We are stuck with those as long as we are on the earth-- but don't worry, it's just temporary.