Question: Can prayers or devotions equal the value of one Mass?

irishpatrick · #1 Jun 9, '12, 11:11 am

With complete respect to all Protestants and non-Catholics on this board.

Worship is owed only to the Lord/God. Catholics, despite what many think, only worship Jesus (God), they do not worship Mary or the Saints, or statues.

When Catholics go to Mass, they can properly say they are worshipping the Lord because the Lord is Present in the Tabernacle, and than Jesus is truly Present later in the Mass during the celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

Is it proper to say Protestants, who do not have the Lord's actual Presence in their Churches, are praising Jesus (God) during their services, rather than worshipping?

[again, submitted with sincere respect]

Rich C · #2 Jun 9, '12, 11:59 am

In the scriptures, we see that the highest form of worship is sacrifice. In the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, Catholics participate in the greatest sacrifice there is: the Son continually offering Himself to the Father for our sakes. I'm not sure where to draw the line in the definition of worship, but clearly Protestant services come nowhere close to the Mass.

Rejoice Always · #3 Jun 9, '12, 12:13 pm

It's an interesting idea: worship vs praise.

If a Catholic can't attend Mass (say due to illness or even something as extreme as political oppression), is that Catholic able to worship God or is that Catholic praising God?

Lincoln7 · #4 Jun 9, '12, 12:15 pm

Irishpatrick,

I'd say the folks at my church worship during our service, indeed they worship God in all aspects of their lives; "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship." (Rom 12:1).

I would also contest we most certainly have the Lord present with us in church, "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them." (Matt 18:20). Of course however, we do not adhere to the understanding of communion as it is in the RCC, but I still think its quite plain, Protestants most certainly have the presence of God with them as they draw near to Him by faith, presenting their bodies and lives as sacrifices too Him (1 Pet 2:5).

Regards

Lincs

**JRKH** · #5 Jun 9, '12, 12:16 pm

I try to worship God always and everywhere....In church/mass or out of it...

So I see no reason why a Protestant cannot properly say they are worshiping God during their services.

Peace
James

austenbosten · #6 Jun 9, '12, 12:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishpatrick

With complete respect to all Protestants and non-Catholics on this board.

Worship is owed only to the Lord/God. Catholics, despite what many think, only worship Jesus (God), they do not worship Mary or the Saints, or statues.

When Catholics go to Mass, they can properly say they are worshipping the Lord because the Lord is Present in the Tabernacle, and than Jesus is truly Present later in the Mass during the celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

Is it proper to say Protestants, who do not have the Lord's actual Presence in their Churches, are praising Jesus (God) during their services, rather than worshipping?

[again, submitted with sincere respect]

What of those Catholics who have no church or tabernacle because of war or persecution....are they forbidden to properly worship?

triumphguy · #7 Jun 9, '12, 12:23 pm

Of course a Protestant is worshipping God in their services.

And

We are blessed to have the fullness of Grace in the Eucharist.

Roy5 · #8 Jun 9, '12, 12:29 pm

Now, really, isn't this a silly question? And offensive not only to Protestants, but to Jews and all who worship God.

Yes, and offensive to God? Christ said that he is with us always. The notion that Christ is somehow only in the Eucharist strikes me as an insult to God, too. There are a thousand reasons why this is a seriously mistaken concept.

Talk about heresy? While I don't worry about heresy all that much, frankly, if I took the charge seriously I would say that this is a wild heresy.

Rejoice Always · #9 Jun 9, '12, 12:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lincoln7

Irishpatrick,

I'd say the folks at my church worship during our service, indeed they worship God in all aspects of their lives; "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship." (Rom 12:1).

I would also contest we most certainly have the Lord present with us in church, "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them." (Matt 18:20). Of course however, we do not adhere to the understanding of communion as it is in the RCC, but I still think its quite plain, Protestants most certainly have the presence of God with them as they draw near to Him by faith, presenting their bodies and lives as sacrifices too Him (1 Pet 2:5).

Regards

Lincs

irishpatrick · #10 Jun 9, '12, 12:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy5

Now, really, isn't this a silly question? And offensive not only to Protestants, but to Jews and all who worship God.

Yes, and offensive to God? Christ said that he is with us always. The notion that Christ is somehow only in the Eucharist strikes me as an insult to God, too. There are a thousand reasons why this is a seriously mistaken concept.

Talk about heresy? While I don't worry about heresy all that much, frankly, if I took the charge seriously I would say that this is a wild heresy.

Please, as you can see from my OP, I mean no insult. It is an honest and respectful question.

When two are gather in the name of the Lord, He is there with them in spirit, yet not in His complete fullness--so it is not an invalid question. There is a significant difference between being fully with the Lord (His actual Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity) versus being the Lord in the Spirit. Both are awesome expressions, yet my point is that there is no higher form on earth than to be with the Lord in the Eucharist, for in the Eucharist we are Communing with the actual Risen Lord--we are literally touching Heaven while on earth.

SaintPatrick333 · #11 Jun 9, '12, 12:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy5

Now, really, isn't this a silly question? And offensive not only to Protestants, but to Jews and all who worship God.

Yes, and offensive to God? Christ said that he is with us always. The notion that Christ is somehow only in the Eucharist strikes me as an insult to God, too. There are a thousand reasons why this is a seriously mistaken concept.

Talk about heresy? While I don't worry about heresy all that much, frankly, if I took the charge seriously I would say that this is a wild heresy.

But at the same time if you took heresy seriously you'd see the serious flaws in your system of belief. Everything that the Catholic Church is and teaches comes from Christ. Christ built one Church and calls us to unity. There can be no churches outside of Christ's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. And no that doesn't mean we are universal and united as long as we all believe Christ is our Savior. I mean Christ is all calling us to Communion with Him in the reception of the Eucharist (a valid one, not a symbolic protestant one)

maltmom · #12 Jun 9, '12, 1:14 pm

When I prayed as a Protestant I was worshiping God. When I pray as a Catholic I am worshiping God. God is worshiped in a Protestant service and He is worshiped in a Catholic service. Acts of worship can be individual or within a group. Worship is devotion to God.

surritter · #13 Jun 9, '12, 1:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintPatrick333

But at the same time if you took heresy seriously you'd see the serious flaws in your system of belief. Everything that the Catholic Church is and teaches comes from Christ. Christ built one Church and calls us to unity. There can be no churches outside of Christ's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. And no that doesn't mean we are universal and united as long as we all believe Christ is our Savior. I mean Christ is all calling us to Communion with Him in the reception of the Eucharist (a valid one, not a symbolic protestant one)

True.
Those that adhere to no particular church will not believe in heresy. Because anytime something is disagreeable, a new "church" can be started which conforms to the individual's viewpoint!

If I don't accept the rules of mathematics, then there will never be a "wrong" answer to me.

irishpatrick · #14 Jun 9, '12, 1:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltmom

When I prayed as a Protestant I was worshiping God. When I pray as a Catholic I am worshiping God. God is worshiped in a Protestant service and He is worshiped in a Catholic service. Acts of worship can be individual or within a group. Worship is devotion to God.

Perhaps the accurate way to say it is, Non-Catholics can worship in the Spirit, while Catholics worship the fullness of Jesus.

Jim Dandy · #15 Jun 9, '12, 1:59 pm

I will state my personal experience. As a Protestant, there was a sign outside the building that said "WORSHIP: Sunday School 9 a.m., Service 10:30 a.m." Inside I heard an exposition of the teacher's opinion about what the Bible means at 9 a.m. At 10:30, I heard a sermon (the preacher's opinion about what the Bible means), some prayers, and participated in some singing and "fellowshipping." I didn't know the true meaning of "worship" until I went to my first Mass.

No offense to Protestants, but that was my experience. I thought that's all there was to Christianity.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!