Are there spiritual consequences for leaving Catholic Church?

[MariaG]

Originally Posted by Merlin3626

Something hit me earlier today..

I did not know, and was never told, that when you entered the Church, you were in for life and to leave would mean the consequences described throughout this thread. It wasn't until after I was received that I heard a priest say, "once Catholic, always Catholic" and even then, I didn't take that with all the weight and extra meaning it apparently has.

Point being, I was granted annulment by the Church because it was decided that my ex and I lacked full knowledge/consent going into the marriage, and if you don't have full consent etc, then it can't be a marriage (same for mortal sin).

It could be argued that I didn't have full knowledge or full consent going into the faith.. Not saying I will bring that up formally, because after all, I'm taking the suggestions of many here and simply steeling myself and trusting in God, but as an academic question, what would you say?

Maybe you could argue that, but it also talks about those who KNOW but refuse to become a member. So whether you knew fully before or not the consequence is the same. You know NOW and will be held responsible by God for that knowledge.

[mlz]

As a new convert myself I'm wondering how you came into the Chuch? Was it a long reflective period? Again, I urge you to just sit before the Blessed sacrament for an hour each week. Such peace ! Did you ever wonder if you aren't being pulled down by the evil one?

Mlz

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by George Stegmeir

Once you are a Catholic, you are one for eternity.

That's what I thought.

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by jmcrae

Protestants who have never heard of the Catholic Church and don't know that the Catholic Church is the source of their Sacraments and Scriptures cannot be damned for their lack of knowledge, but we cannot un-know what we know - we have to remain faithful to the Church - even when from the outside, it seems imperfect.

I know your church teaches if you know and don't remain you could not be saved. But what if someone believed and "knew" but had a change in belief at some later point in their life and they then no longer "know"?

[Porknpie]

Originally Posted by MariaG

Okay, good advice. And you posted my response Merlin before this advice because....?

Maria, (wonderful name) I think you are asking me. I should have started by saying "I agree.". It was implied, sorry if that wasnt clear. That said, Merlin needs to be talking to his priest.

How about the 3P's: Priest, pray and perpetual adoration.

[MariaG]

Originally Posted by Porknpie

Maria, (wonderful name) I think you are asking me. I should have started by saying "I agree.". It was implied, sorry if that wasnt clear. That said, Merlin needs to be talking to his priest.

How about the 3P's: Priest, pray and perpetual adoration.

thanks for the clarification.

So far on this thread I have been accusers of being wicked, uncharitable and I think there was another one for answering the posters question.

Edit: I remember now, it wasn't specifically to me but another who answered similarly, fire and brimstone.

[CleverUserName]

The Eucharist.

That is Jesus Christ. The same Christ who stayed behind at the temple while his earthly parents walked ahead. The same Christ who healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, raised the dead. The same Christ who never turned His back on us, who never walked away when it became too much to bear, knowing the fate that lay ahead of him. The same Christ who stretched out his arms and feet upon the cross so that they could drive nails through them. The same Christ who hung upon that cross and looked down through his agony upon us and the world and died in the greatest act of love that ever was.

That is literally Jesus Christ in that Eucharist, who never abandoned you.

Please don't abandon Him.

[jmcrae]

Originally Posted by CMatt25

I know your church teaches if you know and don't remain you could not be saved. But what if someone believed and "knew" but had a change in belief at some later point in their life and they then no longer "know"?

Such a thing could not happen overnight. At some point, a deliberate decision would have to be made, while in the full knowledge that it was a bad idea.

Also, we have a duty to inform ourselves of the truth. I would hate to be there when someone goes to the Judgement Day and says, 'I didn't know" who lived in the Internet age, and was a subscriber to Catholic Answers. God knows the heart, and knows even those things that people hide from themselves.

[Porknpie]

"About 6 months after reception into the Church I started on that daily mass regimen, along with regular adoration, regular confession, the Little Office, Rosary daily, got involved with two church groups, volunteered on occasion down at a local food pantry. I did everything I could think of to live a good Catholic life and embraced everyone else's recommendations as well. But instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don't feel like a can get a moment's peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church."

"Also, many good Catholics have remained Christians but have stopped attending mass due to disgust regarding the Vatican cover up of Paedophile Priests."


Merlin - One wonderful about being Catholic is that we are the true bible believers (we set the canon) especially so when Jesus himself is speaking. He told us to believe in him but also to "keep the commandments" in order to be saved. When we fail, he gave us reconciliation to make our souls clean. He gave us the Eucharist saying "my flesh is real food, my blood real drink.". We can receive him every day if we desire. And, we believe him when he gave us his Church, founded on Peter and passed on directly to todays Bishops and Priests. A church that has the power to bind and loosen mans sin, "who's sins you forgive are forgiven, who's sins you retain are retained."

I know of no Catholic who would want to turn away from the church that Christ founded using his own words. I would also be aware of Christ's words :

"Beware of wolves dressed in sheeps clothing" and that these wolves will be "speaking perverse things to draw disciples after them."

Merlin, I would stay right where you are at, in the very church founded by Jesus himself. Be aware of the wolves dressed in sheeps clothing that know the Gospel not.

[feed me]

Originally Posted by Porknpie

"About 6 months after reception into the Church I started on that daily mass regimen, along with regular adoration, regular confession, the Little Office, Rosary daily, got involved with two church groups, volunteered on occasion down at a local food pantry. I did everything I could think of to live a good Catholic life and embraced everyone else's recommendations as well. But instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don't feel like a can get a moment's peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church."

"Also, many good Catholics have remained Christians but have stopped attending mass due to disgust regarding the Vatican cover up of Paedophile Priests."


Merlin - One wonderful about being Catholic is that we are the true bible believers (we set the canon) especially so when Jesus himself is speaking. He told us to believe in him but also to "keep the commandments" in order to be saved. When we fail, he gave us reconciliation to make our souls clean. He gave us the Eucharist saying "my flesh is real food, my blood real drink.". We can receive him every day if we desire. And, we believe him when he gave us his Church, founded on Peter and passed on directly to todays Bishops and Priests. A church that has the power to bind and loosen mans sin, "who's sins you forgive are forgiven, who's sins you retain are retained."

I know of no Catholic who would want to turn away from the church that Christ founded using his own words. I would also be aware of Christ's words :

"Beware of wolves dressed in sheeps clothing" and that these wolves will be "speaking perverse things to draw disciples after them."

Merlin, I would stay right where you are at, in the very church founded by Jesus himself. Be aware of the wolves dressed in sheeps clothing that know the Gospel not.

Can't really say that can you? I know of a great bunch of protestants that know the gospel and very well I might add. I mean if somebody leaves the Catholic Church to other denominations like Methodist, Baptists, they really aren't going apostate, just being with other Christians in Christ. It's when you leave Chistianity and believe no more and turn on Christ you appostate.

[jmcrae]

Originally Posted by Merlin3626

But full knowledge at the time is needed for the validity of both marriage and mortal sin. So why not conversion?

I don't know the answer to that, but if it were me making the rules, instead of making it possible for people to "unconvert" in order to equalize it, I'd equalize it by making marriage permanent, with no option to annul it.

Luckily, or rather, by God's infinite grace, the Church isn't listening to either of us.

Yes.. it was about a year and half between making the decision and the Easter Vigil I was confirmed at. Plenty of time for reflection, but as I said, I was unaware of this no going back clause.

That's why it's a year and a half, or two years, instead of six weeks like in other churches.

As for adoration, when I can find a chapel that doesn't have the half the parish using it as a shortcut to the sidewalk, or one that hasn't been commandeered by Ladies Idle Chatting Association, I'll be happy to go again (I used to go twice a week for about a year and a half).

I hear you. I prefer total silence, as well. I don't bother with Adoration any more, because around here it seems to have been hijacked for every political cause under the sun - not that I object to praying for causes, but at the same time, I want my peace and quiet.

Nowadays I just find an empty Church and sit in front of the Tabernacle for 10-15 minutes, when I get the chance.

No, I have no problem with any Church doctrine or dogma; it all makes perfect sense once you start examining it. Struggles with sin are there but pretty run-of-the-mill.

Start with that, then. That's a good thing.

About 6 months after reception into the Church I started on that daily mass regimen, along with regular adoration, regular confession, the Little Office, Rosary daily, got involved with two church groups, volunteered on occasion down at a local food pantry. I did everything I could think of to live a good Catholic life and embraced everyone else's recommendations as well.

Wow, that's a lot to take on - even someone who has been Catholic for years would find such a regimen to be very stressful.

But instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don't feel like a can get a moment's peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church.

Do yourself a favour - pick one devotion and stick to that. Daily Mass, or daily Rosary, or the Little Office - but not everything all at once.

And there is nothing wrong with taking time for quiet in the mornings and in the rain. That's actually a very Catholic thing to do.

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by jmcrae

Such a thing could not happen overnight. At some point, a deliberate decision would have to be made, while in the full knowledge that it was a bad idea.

Also, we have a duty to inform ourselves of the truth. I would hate to be there when someone goes to the Judgement Day and says, 'I didn't know" who lived in the Internet age, and was a subscriber to Catholic Answers. God knows the heart, and knows even those things that people hide from themselves.

But it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea to them if their beliefs changed as to what they believed they knew to be the "truth". In any case I'm not sure someone should necessarily depend on the internet to get all the "answers". God does know the heart though. On that we agree. Thanks for taking the time to respond. God bless you on your journey. Peace.

[constantconvert]

Originally Posted by Merlin3626

About 6 months after reception into the Church I started on that daily mass regimen, along with regular adoration, regular confession, the Little Office, Rosary daily, got involved with two church groups, volunteered on occasion down at a local food pantry. I did everything I could think of to live a good Catholic life and embraced everyone else's recommendations as well. But instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don't feel like a can get a moment's peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church.

The only time I feel close is during the quiet moments throughout the day when I just talk to Him, or when I hear certain music, or see certain pictures, or go for a morning walk, or stand in the middle of the yard for 5 minutes while I wait for the dog to do what she has to do while the sun shines and the birds chirp, or, conversely, when it's a gray, rainy day and I sit down to read some Keats while the rain beats against the window pane.

Those are the times I feel near to the Lord, and none of them have a darn thing to do with attending mass or half of the other things the Church asks me to do. So my heart is one place, but my head is planted firmly in the RCC. It's a contradiction I wasn't planning on.

My goodness, no wonder you're burnt out. I'm glad you've decided to dial it back a bit. As for the times that you feel close to the Lord, great! Praise God! I'm glad that there are times when you feel close to Him. Revel in those times and let them feed you. If the times you're "supposed" to feel close to God (ie, Mass, Reconciliation, saying the Rosary, etc.), you can't feel Him at all, well, that's unfortunate, but it could be a hundred different variables other than "being Catholic." Hang in there.

[mlz]

Dear.Brother in Christ
I am almost certain the evil one is causing this "dissatisfication". When I came into the church I was bombarded with things I'd never had come my way and a very holy priest told me he wasn't surprised, nor should I be as the evil one will try any tactic he can to pull me away. Trust what you were drawn to by coming in, it WAS the Holy Spirit!!
I'm so sorry about you bad Adoration experience as mine is so very powerful.

I will pray for you,
Mlz

[Blue Horizon]

Originally Posted by Merlin3626

...but as I said, I was unaware of this no going back clause.

...instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don't feel like a can get a moment's peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church.

The only time I feel close is during the quiet moments throughout the day when I just talk to Him, or when I hear certain music, or see certain pictures, or go for a morning walk, or stand in the middle of the yard for 5 minutes while I wait for the dog to do what she has to do while the sun shines and the birds chirp, or, conversely, when it's a gray, rainy day and I sit down to read some Keats while the rain beats against the window pane.

Those are the times I feel near to the Lord, and none of them have a darn thing to do with attending mass or half of the other things the Church asks me to do. So my heart is one place, but my head is planted firmly in the RCC. It's a contradiction I wasn't planning on.

Merlin
Why did you join the RCC? That must have been a big decision.

If you felt your conversion was made on limited information and you are sinking spiritually (i.e. you are becoming less virtuous, your faith is weakening, your love for God is lessening, you cannot forgive people as you were want to do before) then why agonise? The answer is clear cut. You made a mistake, you succumbed to an infatuation. Go back to where you were already "bearing fruit" before and realise this was probably the best place for you afterall.

My only caveat would be ... are your criteria for judging "success" correct? You seem to be more concerned about "finding peace", being "happy" rather than "bearing fruit that will last." The two are not the same and you may have come to a point in your life where you are beginning to realise that. "Dark night of the soul" as many have already observed. You ignore this possibility from what I can see.

If this is the case then the places you used to find "happiness" no longer exist regardless of what you externally decide (they are rather a "running away"). If this is so then the path forward across no-mans-land to a new type of "happiness" is that dark journey within which requires passivity (i.e. a letting go of your definitions of what God should be giving you) and patience and waiting on God to bring you to a new light.

Only you can decide between these two choices...anything outside of these two choices, as you intuit, starts to look a little like whining and prevarication .