Luke 2:35

pardrepiochild · #1 Jun 13, '12, 11:47 am

so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too." (can anyone tell me, what the "thoughts of many hearts will be revealed") means?

Neofight · #2 Jun 13, '12, 3:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pardrepiochild

so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too." (can anyone tell me, what the "thoughts of many hearts will be revealed") means?

The "thoughts of many hearts will be revealed" is a prophesy that after the mission of this child his complete, the righteous and the wicked will be apparent on their acceptance or rejection of Christ being the true messiah and Son of God,

Pax

COPLAND 3 · #3 Jun 13, '12, 4:44 pm

Great question! Here is Cornelius a Lapide's great research

Quote:

An obscure sentence, and difficult of interpretation.

1. S. Hilary, who by “sword” understands the Day of Judgment, easily settles the difficulty. The sword, he interprets, shall dissect and lay open the hearts of men—even of the Blessed Virgin. This is the force of the words of the Apocalypse about Christ, “And from His mouth there went forth a sharp two-edged sword” (c. i. v. 16).

2. Eucherius, taking “sword” as the spirit of prophecy, interprets that this sword was given to the Blessed Virgin that she might know the secret thoughts of men.

3. Euthymius—Many, seeing the miracles and the wisdom of Jesus, thought within themselves that He had descended from Heaven, and was not the son of Mary; but, when they saw her at the cross of Christ, mourning and in such tribulation, they abandoned this idea, believing that she who felt His sorrows so deeply must be His mother indeed.

4. S. Augustine (Ep. 59, near the end)—“By the Lord’s Passion both the plots of the Jews and the infirmity of the disciples were made manifest,” for they forsook Christ and fled. This is apposite with respect to the Jews, but not so applicable as to the disciples, for the latter did not meditate flight beforehand.

5. Toletus interprets concisely—The sword that shall pierce thy soul, 0 Virgin, shall be the occasion of revealing the thoughts of many hearts that before lay hidden. For, long before Christ was slain, the leaders of the Jews had the intention of slaying Him, but dared make no attempt against Him, for fear of the people. But then the Jews had already before the Passion made manifest their thoughts about Christ, by cavilling at His words and works, although they concealed their desire to slay Him.

6. The fullest and most obvious explanation is that which makes the “that” expressive both of the purpose and its attainment, and refers it both to the sword and the words of the preceding verse, “This child is set for the fall,” &c. That is to say, that the Scribes and Pharisees, who, like the heretics of to-day, appeared to be the upholders of justice and truth, may show the world how antagonistic they are to the true Messiah and to justice, and what evil designs they cherish against Him. For, before the advent of Christ, they were in hopes that He would come with pomp and with wealth, even as Solomon, so that they might be raised by Him in honour and riches; but when they saw Him in His humility and poverty opposing Himself to their ambition and avarice, and publicly rebuking them for it, they set Him at nought and opposed Him, secretly scheming to bring upon Him the destruction which they at length actually compassed. Then was it revealed who in Israel were just, for these loved Christ sincerely and with constancy; and who unjust, for these persecuted and slew Him. So S. Augustine (Ep. 59), Bede, Jansenius, Maldonatus, Francis Lucas, and others. The explanation of Toletus also tallies with this to some extent.

jcrichton · #4 Jun 17, '12, 9:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pardrepiochild

so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too." (can anyone tell me, what the "thoughts of many hearts will be revealed") means?

Quote:

Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, 'Look, he is destined for the fall and for the rise of many in Israel, destined to be a sign that is opposed so that the secret thoughts of many may be laid bare.'

I removed the thought within the thought that pertains to the Virgin Mary so that we can view a more direct line:

Jesus is the Corner Stone which the builders will reject.
He will serve as the Sign that God's Salvific Plan has been put into effect.
He will cause a clear division in Israel where God's Remnant will allign themselves to Him.
Many in Israel had been circumventing God's Law, specifically the religious leaders, and through Jesus' Ministry their inner most thoughts will be revealed (their concern with the status quo, their understanding of the Scriptures, their thoughts on the Messiah, God's Plan which will include the Gentiles, their erroneous practices, the effort to exercise financial and social control over Israel, their fueds--as today's Believers...)--Jesus will cause the Truth to be brought into the foreground: "...only God can forgive sin!"

Maran atha!

Angel

Cyklist · #5 Jun 18, '12, 6:36 pm

Up to this moment, Simeon, like Mary and Zechariah, may well have imagined the future glory of Israel as liberation from her enemies and restoration to the grandeurs of Davids's reign. But now, with the Messiah before him, and with the prophetic afflatus upon him, he paints a darker picture. This Messiah will lead his people to no easy or superficial triumph. He will be the centre of storm and controversy, which will reveal the secret disposition of many hearts, and will incidentally bring piercing grief to his mother. The fall and rising of many in Israel has usually been interpreted as the fall of some and the rising of others, i.e. a process of self-judgement in which men determine the verdict to be be passed on their lives by the response they make to the coming of the Messiah. But the natural interpretation of Simeon's words, and the one which is better in accord with the facts of Luke's story, is that through the ministry of this one man Jesus the many in Israel will fall before they can rise to the promised glory, will pass through the valley of humiliation before they can ascend into the hill of the Lord. For in the actual event it was not true that the coming of Jesus meant the fall of some and the rising of others. Even his best friend had to be humbled by failure, and then it was only because he had chosen to
share their humiliation that they were able to rise at all. We have here a first intimation of the great theme that will unfold throughout the Gospel and finally be expounded by the risen Jesus: that the Messiah, because he comes to lead Isreal to ther glory, must tread with her the path of suffering.
© Caird, G.B. (1963). Saint Luke--Edited by Nineham, D.E. (pp. 63-64). Middlesex, England, Maryland, U.S.A., Victoria, Australia, Ontario, Canada, Auckland, New Zealand: Penguin Books Ltd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrichton

Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, 'Look, he is destined for the fall and for the rise of many in Israel, destined to be a sign that is opposed so that the secret thoughts of many may be laid bare.'

jcrichton · #6 Jun 24, '12, 7:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyklist

But the natural interpretation of Simeon's words, and the one which is better in accord with the facts of Luke's story, is that through the ministry of this one man Jesus the many in Israel will fall before they can rise to the promised glory, will pass through the valley of humiliation before they can ascend into the hill of the Lord. For in the actual event it was not true that the coming of Jesus meant the fall of some and the rising of others. Even his best friend had to be humbled by failure, and then it was only because he had chosen to
share their humiliation that they were able to rise at all. We have here a first intimation of the great theme that will unfold throughout the Gospel and finally be expounded by the risen Jesus: that the Messiah, because he comes to lead Isreal to ther glory, must tread with her the path of suffering.
© Caird, G.B. (1963). Saint Luke--Edited by Nineham, D.E. (pp. 63-64). Middlesex, England, Maryland, U.S.A., Victoria, Australia, Ontario, Canada, Auckland, New Zealand: Penguin Books Ltd.

I don't quite follow... does this mean that none who rejected Jesus fell and that none who were rejected by the religious elite did rise?

Maran atha!

Angel