Close the hospitals, or close the cities?

losh14 · #1 Jun 20, '12, 7:42 am

The morning show on EWTN (I don't recall the name, the affiliate recently changed lineups) was interviewing Ginger Rue and talking about the response to the HHS mandate. The conversation was very similar to most of the conversations I hear, which tells me that progress isn't being made in D.C., but the question that came up was what should be our response if HHS stands and Catholic organizations are forced to pay for immoral behaviors and Catholic hospitals are forced to offer them.

Ginger hoped that the bishops would have the courage to close the hospitals, which is not the first time I've heard the sentiment. I wonder if it's the right approach.

My fear is that if we shutter the hospitals, for-profit institutions would step in, and the only lesson taught by the Satanic press would be "Catholics walked away from sick people." If the charities simply shut down, the devils who serve our godless political leaders would write "Catholics gave up on the poor." Shuttering institutions would certainly keep Catholics from being in proximate evil to acts of contraception and abortion, but it would push our Gospel mission out of thick of life where it needs to be.

Would it not be better to keep the hospitals open but refuse to comply with an unjust law? I'd rather see Catholics swarm the American consciousness than withdraw completely from it. I'd rather see bishops finally start excommunicating disobedient Catholics who are political leaders (Pelosi and Sebelius, for starters). I'd like to see charities continue to provide their assistance and refuse to pay the extortionary fines.

I realize this is not possible without numbers. There are a handful of workers at Our Lady's Inn in South City at any one point in time - by refusing to comply with the HHS mandate, the government could issue a cease-and-desist order against the charity (which has saved hundreds of babies by giving their mothers a reason and ability to not have an abortion), enforceable by City police. That order would be harder to carry out with 100 Catholics praying in a cordon around the building.

I'm talking massive civil disobedience rather than massive ecclesiastical retreat.

Sandalwood · #2 Jun 20, '12, 8:12 am

I don't believe closing the hospitals is the right answer either. There are so many sick and hurt people out there who need good quality care. However, I think many of the Catholic hospitals don't make their statement of faith known either. I moved to a state when I was pregnant and gave birth in a town nearby. That was over 20 years ago. I just found out a couple of years ago that it was a Catholic hospital! I had no idea! I asked my niece, who also gave birth their 9 years ago and she had no idea either. I wish the hospitals that were Catholic based would come out in the forefront and speak up about these issues and also make clear where their faith base is.

Byrnwiga · #3 Jun 20, '12, 8:22 am

I agree with the blog post here: http://www.sanctepater.com/2012/05/b...ike-cheap.html. The bishops should force the governments to shut the hospitals down, rather than close them voluntarily.

-Byrnwiga

Lost_Sheep · #4 Jun 20, '12, 8:28 am

The Church answers to God; not the whim of popular opinion.

losh14 · #5 Jun 20, '12, 8:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrnwiga

I agree with the blog post here: http://www.sanctepater.com/2012/05/b...ike-cheap.html. The bishops should force the governments to shut the hospitals down, rather than close them voluntarily.

-Byrnwiga

I'll be following this blog from now on:
Listen, you fools. YOU DON'T SHUT ANYTHING DOWN. You keep going exactly as you have been, and you force those dirty rotten ____s to literally storm your hospitals and shut YOU down at gunpoint. And I'm not kidding. Make them physically shut down your hospital by dragging you out at gunpoint. Make them physically shut down your schools. Make them shut down your university by force because you won't cover abortions in your student health plan. Make them physically shut down your soup kitchens. Make them shut down your adoption agencies because you won't hand a baby boy over to {gay men}.

This inspires me - the blog itself, not the passage above (I just love her forcefulness, though).... I have an idea.

Michael Mayo · #6 Jun 20, '12, 8:42 am

The shift of Catholic Healthcare West to Dignity is probably more likely for current Catholic health systems.

http://www.dignityhealth.org/About_o...Name/index.htm

losh14 · #7 Jun 20, '12, 9:02 am

I actually wonder how Catholic is Catholic Healthcare now. The local hospitals have been moving away from the Catholic identity (though the Baptist hospital still keeps Bibles in the patient rooms), and its rare to see nuns assisting the patients. Aside from the chaplains on duty, I've noticed little evidence of the Catholic nature of the institutions.

I am far more concerned over the mandate on employer insurance. The Congress strikes me as astonishingly vapid over self-insured entities.

Sandalwood · #8 Jun 20, '12, 9:07 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by losh14

I actually wonder how Catholic is Catholic Healthcare now. The local hospitals have been moving away from the Catholic identity (though the Baptist hospital still keeps Bibles in the patient rooms), and its rare to see nuns assisting the patients. Aside from the chaplains on duty, I've noticed little evidence of the Catholic nature of the institutions.

I am far more concerned over the mandate on employer insurance. The Congress strikes me as astonishingly vapid over self-insured entities.

that was my point in my post above. I had a baby in a Catholic hospital and had no idea it was a Catholic hospital!

_Abyssinia · #9 Jun 20, '12, 9:30 am

Cardinal George said Catholic hospitals could close because of the HHS mandate:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/04/...ontrol-mandate

Michael Mayo · #10 Jun 20, '12, 9:57 am

The cardinal told members of the Union League Club downtown that the Church may otherwise sell its hospitals, pay penalties, or in a last resort, close them altogether, rather than offer birth control. George says offering birth control would be cooperating with evil.

I think in most cases the Catholic Church would withdraw sponsorship. The hospital or health system would stay open because of the need for healthcare but no longer be Catholic.

livingwordunity · #11 Jun 22, '12, 5:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by losh14

I'll be following this blog from now on:
Listen, you fools. YOU DON'T SHUT ANYTHING DOWN. You keep going exactly as you have been, and you force those dirty rotten ____s to literally storm your hospitals and shut YOU down at gunpoint. And I'm not kidding. Make them physically shut down your hospital by dragging you out at gunpoint. Make them physically shut down your schools. Make them shut down your university by force because you won't cover abortions in your student health plan. Make them physically shut down your soup kitchens. Make them shut down your adoption agencies because you won't hand a baby boy over to {gay men}.

This inspires me - the blog itself, not the passage above (I just love her forcefulness, though).... I have an idea.

I agree with that part of the quote from that blog, too. We shouldn't shut anything down without the government sending their goons with guns to shut it down. That way everyone can know who did it.

St Francis · #12 Jun 22, '12, 6:21 pm

The problem is that if the government were to "send in its goons," the hospitals would be simply taken over, not closed down.

Michael Mayo · #13 Jun 22, '12, 6:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durus

NO religion should have permission or authority to operate any medical facility in the Western World.

Shut them down and let secular institutions take over.

Why?

livingwordunity · #14 Jun 22, '12, 7:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durus

NO religion should have permission or authority to operate any medical facility in the Western World.

Shut them down and let secular institutions take over.

That's a very odd thing to say considering that we wouldn't have hospitals today if it weren't for the Catholic Church. Atheists love to do a lot of talking and bragging about themselves, but why don't we see any atheists doing what people of faith like Blessed Mother Teresa or Saint Fr. Damien of Molokai did with personally taking care of lepers and other people who were dying in the streets and expecting nothing in return? The atheists that I know of might donate some money to the poor, but they always blow a trumpet when they do it. It's nothing like the Christian virtue of charity.

Michael Mayo · #15 Jun 23, '12, 5:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durus

If they aren't able to leave their religious beliefs at the door while treating patients who do not share their beliefs, then they have no business being in the medical business.

And then what?

Nearly one in every five hospital beds in the United States is now under the control of a religious entity and 10 of the 20 largest health systems in the country are religiously-owned.
The Catholic healthcare system is the largest private non-profit provider of healthcare in the nation. In fact, 70% of religiously affiliated hospitals identify as Catholic.

Do you know how much charity care they provide?
Who will take up that non profitable care?