Pope Examines Why Latin American Catholics Join Evangelical Churches

[Catholic Press]

Pope Benedict XVI believes that Catholics who convert to evangelical Christianity often do so because they experience a lack of fervor, joy and community within Catholic parishes – rather than for doctrinal reasons.

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[Tony the mad]

Not only does he talk about making the liturgy and Catholic community more welcoming, but also about catechesis for the young, and solidarity with the entire church including the poor.

I know that I am not the Pope for a very good reason, but I cannot help but wish that our Bishops would truly pay attention to this. I humbly believe that if we can fix those things everything else will fall into place with little effort. And until we fix them all of our efforts against abortion and the like will fail.

[Tigg]

hmmmm..........

As an unbaptized soul, I joined the Church as a teenager (soley by the grace of God) and my joy and fervor came from an absolute belief that the Eucharist was the Lord. Back in those days, there were no hospitality ministers, and to boot, I was the only one in my rather pagan family that converted. I went to Church by myself because my Godparents lived too far away to take me so there was no sense of community either.

I like the practical advice, tho, and completely agree that catechesis is the key. I wonder if the Neo-Cat program would be beneficial to these Latinos because it appears (from what I've heard) to offer everything the Holy Father mentions.

[curlycool89]

Originally Posted by Catholic Press

Pope Benedict XVI believes that Catholics who convert to evangelical Christianity often do so because they experience a lack of fervor, joy and community within Catholic parishes – rather than for doctrinal reasons.

This is, unfortunately, something the so-called Traditionalist wing likes to ignore or pretend that it's not a problem.

There are many people who seem to be of the mindset that "I go to Mass, I don't need to talk to anyone there or anything". The reason we get together on Sundays is to worship as a community. People seem to discount that or think that it's not important.

Most parishes (and even diocese) don't seem to pay much attention to young adults especially. Spiritually speaking, one size does not fit all. Here in Canada, the diocese that have good young adult groups are by and large the ones that have CCO involved (CCO is a university-age led Catholic group endorsed by the bishops, and Bl. John Paul II, that is fairly charismatic).

We we need to look at is doing more stuff outside of Mass. There's nothing wrong with having gatherings during the week (or even on Sunday before/after Mass) for different types of worship or bible studies or faith studies or lectio divina or many other things. What we're really missing is good leaders (especially young adult leaders) and priests/parishes willing to encourage them.

In older times, parishes use to be focal points of the entire community. For most Catholic churches, that's just not the case anymore.

[Lifesong]

As a recent convert to the faith who came from a friendly Methodist church with great music I totally agree with the Holy Father. I came to the Church for the truth and have never been more at peace. But I have many Catholic friends who now worship at non demoninational churches and they are doing so for the community, praise and worship, and Bible studies which they feel the Church they attended was lacking. I feel such a call to somehow be a bridge in the divide as I am "multicultural" so to speak but as a new convert still not sure how to do that. I would love to see more opportunities for charismatic praise and worship maybe (our archdiocese has a Charismatic movement, but none of the parishes near me have anything like that) and more Bible study opportunities which our parish has been trying to get going. I don't know where to go with this and I love the reverence of the Mass itself and am a daily attender, but I think these sorts of things in addition might bring in some younger people. I am struggling to find my place with all of this but it has been on my heart and am glad to see it is on the Holy Father's as well- bring on the new evangilization!

Blessings,

Val

[_Abyssinia]

Young Hispanic Americans are also shifting from Catholic to Evangelical Churches. One founder of a Christian outreach ministry thinks it is because of music:

http://tvportal.unored.com/news/read...cal-churches-6

[_Abyssinia]

What Catholics Can Learn From Evangelicals

http://www.stjohn17v20-21.com/evangl01.htm

1.

The first area Catholics must reclaim is the principle of holiness, not just for the clergy and religious, but for every believer. Evangelicals understand that an encounter with the living Christ means they must be set apart for him. This means living a life radically committed to the Savior - simply being a "respectable" person is not an adequate answer to the call for holiness.

2.

The second area where Catholics can learn from Evangelicals is how to evangelize. Catholics are way behind Evangelicals in this discipline. Our sluggishness in evangelizing is indicative of a spiritual malaise.

.

Flowing from their desire to spread the gospel, Evangelicals also try to appeal to people through a rational defense of the faith. A trip to your local Evangelical bookstore will turn up books defending the veracity of the Scriptures, the historical credibility of the resurrection of Christ, and reasoned defenses of the Christian faith which answer objections from both atheists and cultists.

At one time, Catholics too had a great number of apologetical works but now there is a dearth of such materials. Unfortunately, some of the contemporary books that are written to explain the Catholic faith are all too willing to concede that Scripture has errors in it or they are afraid to defend the Church's teaching on controversial issues.

On the positive side, a number of apologetic works, mostly defending the Church against Protestant objections, have been produced recently in response to the hunger the Catholic laity have to know and defend their faith. One truly outstanding example of this has been the apologetics tapes that have been produced by three former Evangelical ministers, Scott Hahn, Gerry Matatics, and Steve Woods. These tapes provide a refreshing biblical explanation of the Catholic Faith which every Catholic should become familiar with. Also, a number of classic works in apologetics have been reprinted. However, much work still remains to be done. The majority of apologetic books currently available adequately handle basic objections. What is needed are works which go deeper to answer the most sophisticated objections from Evangelicals, atheists, and non-Christian groups. Catholic theologians, philosophers, and scientists would be doing their brothers and sisters in the faith a disservice if they fail to respond to the need for solid defenses of the Catholic faith.

3.

A third area where we can learn from our Evangelical brothers and sisters is their love for Sacred Scripture. It is true that the Catholic Church is the true "Bible Church," that our doctrine faithfully transmits the full gospel as taught in Scripture, and that our liturgy is soaked with Scripture. However, it is also true that the scriptural knowledge of too many Catholics is poor and thin. Evangelicals on the other hand have a reputation for being well versed in the Bible which enables them to quickly demonstrate their beliefs from Scripture. Also, since the Bible is God's Word, which is "living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword," reading and meditating on it gives devout Evangelicals a biblical spirituality and holiness which is truly attractive to non-believers

4.

The fourth area Catholics can improve is in our knowledge of ourselves as brothers and sisters in the Lord. Evangelical churches are frequently warm and friendly places where strangers are welcome and where efforts are made for the members of the congregation to fellowship with one another. In many Catholic churches, on the other hand, the parishioners dash to the parking lot after Mass with hardly a word. These same parishes may lack programs where Catholics can fellowship in small groups such as Bible studies or faith sharing groups. With their friendliness, it is no surprise that many Evangelical churches are growing, sometimes at the expense of "cold" Catholic parishes.

[JimR-OCDS]

A few years ago I read the book, "Teacher Man, " by Frank McCourt, an Irish born Catholic, more infamous for his book, "Angela's Ashes."

Anyway, on his trip over to Ireland, he met an Evangelical and had some conversation with him. The man shared his faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible, and asked Frank if he was saved and all the usual.

Anyway, one night Frank walked up on deck and saw the Evangelcal standing at the railing, praying. He was looking up to the sky and praising God and thanking him for everything he was blessed with.

Frank thought to himself for a minute and asked himself, if the ship were to suddenly begin to sink, this man would be singing divine praises to God, while himself a Catholic, would be running around the ship looking for a priest to give him Last Rites.

This is the difference which draws people away from the Church. We're not a Church which preaches Jesus Christ and hope in our salvation through him, so much as we preach how few of us will make it to heaven because we are sinners and deserve hell fire and will probably end up there because we're not holy enough.

If you doubt me, go over the Spiritual Forum and read some of the threads recently posted.


Jim

[Swiss Guy]

I feel like it is related to: Poorly Formed Catholics Biggest Obstacle to New Evangelization. I don't know one truly devout Catholic, yet I know Evangelicals who appear to be more zealous and are more outspoken. It is saddening.

[Elizabeth502]

I guess some of this partly depends on how one defines (or experiences) "joy," "fervor," and "community." I find all three abundantly in the Roman Catholic Church.

I am also reminded of what my college roommate once told me. She was engaged to a Presbyterian in seminary training, and in their religious encounters had met a number of evangelicals. She said that what she observed over a period of time was that their very fervor was quite dependent on, and drew from, emotion. When things were going well (in their lives, or in their perception of religion as impacting those lives), they continued to be very fervent and convicted. When the bottom fell out, they were like fair-weather friends. What troubled my roommate was the lack of independent faith/conviction, despite the appearance of grandiose enthusiasm: it didn't last. It was not built on the theological virtues of faith/hope/charity, but rather on feelings. (In her opinion, with considerably more direct experience with that whole branch of Protestantism than I had at the time.)

If joy is defined as certain kinds of music and spontaneous, audible bursts of passion, then I guess we Catholics are "joyless." But of course, theologically, joy is not defined as outward excitability.

I think this is more a matter of differences in cultural taste. The moment any parish I attend imports an "evangelical" flavor in some patronizing attempt to meet an assumed 'demand," is the moment I will retreat to recognizably Catholic parishes.

As to community, I continue to maintain that it's up to the individual to make & discover community. You don't have to be an extrovert to do so. Showing up for parish events, joining a group as a participant/follower, --- there are many ways to experience community in a Catholic setting, even though that is not necessarily during worship. (If that's what people want, and place as a priority, they should in fact seek faith traditions whose worship involves fellowship.)

[ringil]

We need hispanic priests to minister to our hispanic brothers and sisters. Certainly, non-hispanic priests do an excellent job but folks will respond best and be drawn to a priest who shares their culture.

The Spanish speaking Church has a beautiful, centuries old, vibrant life. We don't need to copy the methods of low church Evangelicals. Hispanic Catholics can find their faith in their own faith tradition not through a largely Caucasian, Protestant faith system which is alien to their history.

I just wish that Evangelicals would keep their paws off our faithful.

[Zosimus41]

Originally Posted by Swiss Guy

I feel like it is related to: Poorly Formed Catholics Biggest Obstacle to New Evangelization. I don't know one truly devout Catholic, yet I know Evangelicals who appear to be more zealous and are more outspoken. It is saddening.

Well said.

These complaints seem to be about how can we make the Catholic church "more colourful" More like the evangelist.

If someone leaves the true church its not because we lack anything we have the Eucharist
Its because of on their part they lack faith.

They prefer a more entertaining way of worship.

You either accept the truth or you dont.

Contrary to popular belief God is not a democracy

Something that was once rightly condemned as heresy cannot later become truth

[Elizabeth502]

Originally Posted by Zosimus41

If someone leaves the true church its not because we lack anything we have the Eucharist Its because of on their part they lack faith.

They prefer a more entertaining way of worship.

Well, they may prefer a more expressive way of worship, but I agree that if the style of worship is being substituted for the content, the validity, and the Truth of the worship, then a choice is being made for something inferior. And that choice does not require us to adopt a different style of worship in some desperate, misguided effort to retain unconvicted followers.

And I agree that there are plenty of Hispanic Masses and Hispanic parishes which cater to cultural preferences. So i.m.o. the business about the style of worship is a baseless excuse.

It has been discussed elsewhere (on much earlier threads) that the "community" being referred to often has more to do with language and recency of immigration (and the need to establish local roots with a visible population), than with the supposed lack of community in any Roman Catholic Church with a significant Hispanic presence.

[Luna Lovecraft]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth502

As to community, I continue to maintain that it's up to the individual to make & discover community.

No. Building community requires at least one other person who wants to build with you.

I've attended Mass in many parishes on three continents and I can honestly say that none of them seemed to give two figs if I was there or not. From my college parish - situated in town home to a university with more than 40,000 students - that did not have one ministry geared towards young adults, to my current parish - that hasn't managed to even get my family enrolled despite numerous attempts on our part to d so - I've found a decided lack of interest on the part of anyone at any of them in community building.

I long, long ago resigned myself to parish life as reception of sacraments with a bunch of strangers, too many of whom can't manage a smile much less express any kind of outward manifestation of joy. Friendship, sense of community, the "human touch" - that stuff I find anywhere and everywhere but a Catholic parish.

Luna

[ringil]

Originally Posted by Luna Lovecraft

I long, long ago resigned myself to parish life as reception of sacraments with a bunch of strangers, too many of whom can't manage a smile much less express any kind of outward manifestation of joy. Friendship, sense of community, the "human touch" - that stuff I find anywhere and everywhere but a Catholic parish.

Luna

Oh, that's not fair. Yes, some parishes aren't as welcoming as they could be but many are- you just have to put yourself out there.

My local Maronite church (I am Latin but go there b/c it's close) have been really friendly and help me out when they see how lost I am in trying to follow along in the worship aid booklet.

What I'm saying is that it's not a Catholic problem- it's a "people" problem.