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  #1  
Old Jun 29, '12, 1:43 pm
codephined codephined is offline
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Post Popes Calling for a New World Order?

Hello all, this is my first post in Catholic Answers forum. Let me give some background on myself before I continue.
I was raised in an evangelical Pentecostal family, my father was the preacher...so I'm a "preacher's son" . He was leaning toward Catholicism later in his ministry, and after being involved in deliverance's from evil spirits he was ordained a Roman Catholic exorcist in Central Louisiana by Bishop Sam Jacobs. He still has the Roman Rite of Exorcism (the Latin). I remember him travelling all over the State (Louisiana) to battle the demons that possessed various types of people (Bible-believing Protestants, Non-denominational Christians, Atheists, Catholics, etc .. Satan apparently doesn't discriminate!)

I just recently came back to the Church this past year (praise Jesus!) ... but I am struggling with Papal authority. Maybe it's my inherit distrust for authority--or any top-down structure. The more I research into the construction of a New World Order, I always run into various Popes calling for a New World Order. We know that the coming world order is a socialist "order" devoid of Christianity.

I do submit to the authority of the Church, but I am very wary of what comes out of the Vatican now-a-days. Benedict has appointed several ultra-conservative cardinals, and it is my belief that he is preparing the Church for the next Pope (St. Malachy's prophecy of Petrus Romanus).

My question is why did Pope John Paul II call for a New World Order on several occasions? When I've asked my father about what he thinks about that, he says that the Pope was referring to a "different" world order ... but that still doesn't make much sense to me. Benedict called for a "new social and financial order" (Caritas in Veritate [Charity in Truth]). We know that a world government system must usurp the Church in order to be truly "world government/world religion".... with the Catholic Church being the "biggest game in town."

It is my belief that the "great falling away" will be another schism in the Church ... but that's my speculation of course. Even if the institution of the Church goes the wrong direction, the doctrine of the Apostles and the teachings will remain. The gates of Hell will not prevail!

My question is why are our Popes calling for and supporting a new socialist world government? and Please don't respond with "the New World Order is conspiracy-theory" ... it's out in the open and in our faces -- if you haven't heard of it, you haven't been paying attention.
  #2  
Old Jun 29, '12, 1:47 pm
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MarcoPolo MarcoPolo is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

Welcome! Try this article:
Editorial: Pope’s New Encyclical Speaks Against, not for One-World Government and New World Order
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Old Jun 29, '12, 1:56 pm
jam070406 jam070406 is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

I admit that I find JPII (and Paul VI at a UN meeting) calling for a New World Order perplexing.
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Old Jun 29, '12, 1:58 pm
Bookcat Bookcat is online now
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/arc...9/jul/09070812
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Old Jun 29, '12, 2:23 pm
codephined codephined is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

Thank you all, I am reading
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Old Jun 29, '12, 2:25 pm
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JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

St. Malachy's alleged prophecies are forgeries put on paper many centuries after that saint had died it should be noted.
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Old Jun 29, '12, 2:31 pm
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

Quote:
Originally Posted by codephined View Post
Thank you all, I am reading
Also do a search sometime for "Pope" and the concept of "subsidiarity".
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Old Jun 29, '12, 2:40 pm
TimothyH TimothyH is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

Quote:
Originally Posted by codephined View Post
My question is why did Pope John Paul II call for a New World Order on several occasions? When I've asked my father about what he thinks about that, he says that the Pope was referring to a "different" world order ... but that still doesn't make much sense to me. Benedict called for a "new social and financial order" (Caritas in Veritate [Charity in Truth]). We know that a world government system must usurp the Church in order to be truly "world government/world religion".... with the Catholic Church being the "biggest game in town."
The cliché "New World Order" typically means a totalitarian one-world government. This is not what the Popes have called for and why the piece cited by Bookcat is important to read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat View Post
The "New order" is that the governments and leaders of the world order themselves on the teachings of Christ.

A world which is ordered on the teachings of Christ, where the true Gospel as taught by the Church would be the guide for governments and leaders, would truly be new.


-Tim-
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Old Jun 29, '12, 2:55 pm
jam070406 jam070406 is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
The cliché "New World Order" typically means a totalitarian one-world government. This is not what the Popes have called for and why the piece cited by Bookcat is important to read.



The "New order" is that the governments and leaders of the world order themselves on the teachings of Christ.

A world which is ordered on the teachings of Christ, where the true Gospel as taught by the Church would be the guide for governments and leaders, would truly be new.


-Tim-
Not really. A NWO is an order devoid of Logos and Christianity. We had as close as could get to countries being ordered to Church teaching throughout Europe. That is why Pope Benedict has stated Europe needs a RETURN to it's roots.
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Old Jun 29, '12, 2:55 pm
Bartolome Casas Bartolome Casas is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

1. I recommend that you don't read commentaries on papal speeches and encyclicals, but rather read the papal speeches and commentaries themselves, with your own eyes and your own mind.

2. Despite what I just said, I'll give you a little of my own "commentary" right now. From what I can tell, the Catholic Church DOES call for a significant degree of united global governance. As I understand it, the Catholic Church's view is that when too much of the world's economic system is controlled by selfish, nationalistic interests of a few rich nations, this is bad for the poorer peoples of the world. They see this as leading to wars and to grotesque economic balances.

3. In the USA, especially among political conservatives, there a huge hatred of anything like global governance. They even want to eliminate the U.N., or have the U.S. withdraw from it. But so what? Political conservatives in the U.S. dissent from many other points of Catholic Social Doctrine. For a list of what political conservatives dissent on, see this brief essay by a Catholic professor at the Franciscan University of Steubenville: http://skrason.wordpress.com/2012/06...cial-teaching/

4. I believe we are all called to be 100% Catholic and that we should not let politicos of the Right or the Left cause us to have a truncated form of Catholicism.

Last edited by Bartolome Casas; Jun 29, '12 at 3:10 pm.
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Old Jun 29, '12, 3:07 pm
SaintPatrick333 SaintPatrick333 is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

I am all for a one world government. Total union and submission to Rome. With the Pope leading the entire world we would have as close to a utopia as we could ever attain on our own (until Christ returns). No country is fit to lead who keeps money as their number one priority. All the "major" powers have proven they are corrupt and incapable of leading their own people let alone the whole world.
  #12  
Old Jun 29, '12, 3:50 pm
codephined codephined is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

That was very clarifying, thanks. I'm a very "Constitutionalist"-type guy so anything that would give sovereignty to a foreign power, whether it's the Saxe-Coberg & Gotha "British" Royal family (German/Transylvanian descent ... yeah, I know, crazy right?) or the "banking dictatorship" run by the central banks (technocrats in their own words) that we see happening in the EU. Riding the back of the derivative scam will put us in a similar situation.

I agree with Benedict on several points :
Quote:
In order not to produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature, the governance of globalization must be marked by subsidiarity.
but this really hit home with me:
Quote:
"There is reason to suspect that development aid is sometimes linked to specific health-care policies which de facto involve the imposition of strong birth control measures,"
He couldn't be more right about the use of force with birth control, sterilization, and abortions in a socialist government. The IMF requires third world nations to vaccinate their population, which usually ends up in sterilization or worse. The UN periodically has meetings (Rio Summit) where they talk about using the hysteria of environmental crisis as a method to create treaties for the purpose of population control. Taxing us for the air we exhale, because as we all know, our breath and livestock's flatulent is causing the earth to heat up (gee, it can't be the sun, can it?). In Australia, the government recently stated that any business criticizing the new carbon taxes, a tax on simply being alive, will be fined 1.1 million....

This is the kind of global gov't the UN represents, so when the Pope references world government...it gets my attention! The UN is obviously not interested in the exousia that Paul mentioned in Romans 13. The greek exousia means power; authority; power to do as one pleases; liberty, I believe Paul was telling us in Romans 13:
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher liberty. For there is no liberty but of God: the liberties that be are ordained of God. ..." (I think that's pretty damn beautiful) and as John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

So we must keep our morality and religion in order to remain a free Republic ... but i'm afraid we're going in the complete opposite direction :( The "moral fabric" of a global socialist system is diametrically opposed to what our faith requires...

@jam070406 : What do you suspect JP II's reason was for that speech before the UN? That's bothered me too
  #13  
Old Jun 29, '12, 4:21 pm
codephined codephined is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

@Marco: Thanks, I'll do that

@Bartolome Casas: I agree with ya, I should have read it "from the horse's mouth" before posting, although I wasn't solely focusing on Benedict. Like jam said earlier in the thread it perplexes me as well.
I'll check out that essay you posted, too. I just think that any form of global governance is a terrible idea for obvious reasons. It consolidates power under one roof, even if it were given to the best moral authority on earth, could and Would be taken advantage of later. I say leave that sort of government for when Jesus returns

@Tim: That seems to be the consensus from different priests I've talked to on the subject, that they were calling for a new order under Christ ... but we know that won't happen until Jesus himself returns. I've also wondered if it might have to do with trying to force fulfillment of prophecy by supporting the creation of a world system.

@JharekCarnelian: I've heard that too... when was it allegedly forged? It almost seems that conclave has been picking vicars to coincide with the "prophecy"

@SaintPatrick333: Sounds good in theory it's obvious that Christianity allowed the idea of liberty to blossom and carried it through the ages. I still have trouble with the idea of top-down governance
  #14  
Old Jun 29, '12, 5:04 pm
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Vouthon Vouthon is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

Venerable Pope Pius XII supported the idea of humanity forming a world federation of democratic states. The type of world federalism described by Pope Pius would appear to be the Catholic Church's broad aim in speaking of "global governance"; not a unitary world state or a tyrannical world government but yes a World Federation endowed with genuine authority, maintaining the peace, equality and autonomy of the member states and founded upon a healthy, Catholic/Christian ethos and governed by Christian ethics yet having true separation between Church and State:


"...Your movement, Gentlemen, has the task of creating an effective political organization of the world. There is nothing more in keeping with the traditional doctrines of the Church, or better adapted to her teachings on the rightful or unjust war, especially in the present world situation. An organization of this nature must, therefore, be set up…You are of the opinion that the political world organization needs to take a federal shape in order to be effective. If you mean by this that it needs to be released from mechanical leveling down then you thereby are as well in accordance with the principles of social and political life as they are established and advocated by the Church...[The future political world organization] will only exercise effective authority to the degree in which it preserves and fosters the independent existence of a healthy human community whose members jointly participate in advancing the welfare of the whole of humanity...You have the courage to give yourself to this cause. We congratulate you. We would express to you Our wishes for your entire success and with all Our heart We will pray to God to grant you His wisdom and help in the performance of your task...The spirit of federalism, the future organization of the world in political respect, will play an important role. In the same measure it safeguards the natural and healthy life of human communities in bringing about the greatest welfare of all mankind. I wish you great success in your labor and God give you light and assistance..."

- Pope Pius XII, to the members of the Congress of World Federalists, held in Rome, April, 1951



Yes you read that correct, Pope Pius XII supported the idea of a World Federation of Nations....

Back in the 1950s this was commented on by many newspapers, for example these two in the American press:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...deralism&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...deralism&hl=en


Part of the first link reads:


"...WORLD FEDERALISM TO END ARMS RACE

Pope Pius Friday urged the creation of a world political organization to put an end to an armament race that will leave people "ruined and exhausted". The Pope addressed 25 delegates from 11 countries, gathered here for the fourth congress of the World Movement for World Federal Government. The objectives of this organization, the Pope said, "conform with the traditional doctrine of the Catholic Church".

A world political organization, the pope said, must be of a federal form to take effect..."



The other newspaper reads in part:


"...POPE PIUS URGES ONE GOVERNMENT

Reuters - Pope Pius XII today told world federalists from eight countries that world government was "more than ever neccessary". Suggesting that present sovereign governments were too feeble to handle the international crisis, he appealed for a world authority...His audience was drawn from men and women from 22 countries...."




"...An essential point in any future international arrangement would be the formation of an organ for the maintenance of peace, of an organ invested by common consent with supreme power to whose office it would also pertain to smother in its germinal state any threat of isolated or collective aggression.

No one could hail this development with greater joy than he who has long upheld the principle that the idea of war as an apt and proportionate means of solving international conflicts is now out of date.

No one could wish success to this common effort, to be undertaken with a seriousness of purpose never before known, with greater enthusiasm, than he who has conscientiously striven to make the Christian and religious mentality reject modern war with its monstrous means of conducting hostilities..."

- Pope Pius XII, Democracy and a Lasting Peace, 1944



"...The unity of the world will be. The dignity of the human person shall be recognized not only formally but effectively. The inviolability of life, from the womb to old age… Undue social inequalities will be overcome. The relations between peoples will be peaceful, reasonable and fraternal. Neither selfishness, nor arrogance, nor poverty… [shall] prevent the establishment of a true human order, a common good, a new civilization..."

—POPE PAUL VI, Urbi et Orbi Message, April 4th, 1971



This World Federation will never occur at the moment given the current sorry state of humanity. It can only come around if the world is penetrated by Catholic teachings and values.


According to many Catholic prophecies there will come, after a period of great distress, a "sabbath day" for the world where Christ will be fully born within the hearts of all men, and all people will live like saints, but well before the Second Coming and the New Heavens and New earth.


Venerable Bartholomew Holzhauser (17th century)

"...A great change will come to pass, such as no mortal man will have expected...a new mankind will come into existence. God possesses the key to everything. Blessed is he who will then be able to praise him, having obeyed all his commandments. And the great monarch of the world will create new laws for the new mankind and will cause a new age to begin, in which there will be only one flock and one shepherd, and peace will be of long, long duration, for the glory of God in heaven and on earth...The Sixth Age of the Spirit commences with the powerful Monarch and the Holy Pontiff...This will be an age of consolation in which God will console His Spirit of the affliction and the great tribulation of the preceding age. All the nations will be united in the Catholic faith. The sacerdocy will flower more than ever, and men will seek the kingdom of God in all solicitude... Many saints and doctors will flourish in the earth. Men will love reason and justice. Peace will reign in all the universe, because the divine power will bind Satan for many years, until the son of perdition will rave anew...It is in that age that the relation of the sixth Spirit of the Lord will be known, that is to say the Spirit of Wisdom that God diffuses over all the surfaces of the globes in those times. For men will fear the Lord their God, they will observe the law and serve it with all their heart. The sciences will be multiplied and complete on the earth. The Holy Scriptures will be unanimously understood, without controversy and without the errors of heresies. Men will be enlightened, so much as in the natural sciences and in the celestial sciences. Finally, the Sixth Church, the Church of Philadelphia, is the type of this sixth age, for Philadelphia signifies friendship of brothers, and again guarding the heritage in union with the Lord. Now all these characters convene perfectly in the sixth age, in which they will have love, concord and perfect peace and in which the powerful Monarch will have to consider almost the entire world as his heritage. He will deliver up the earth, with the aid of the Lord his God from all his enemies, of ruin and of all evil...for all nations will be brought to the unity of the True catholic faith..."


Catholicism, unlike Protestantism, is not bleak about the future nor about the possibility of moral, humane progress for our race.

A new civilisation of love, to quote Blessed Pope John Paul II's words, can come into being.

We never attain utopia, however we can certainly attain a united, much more Catholic world where such evils as war, abortion, euthanasia, social inequalities etc. are either eliminated or greatly lessened from their current state.

And as Catholics we have hope to believe that through the Holy Spirit the world will get better rather than worse, more unified rather than fragmented, more Catholic rather than atheist.

There will also be great scientific advancement but moral and ethical - in accordance with Catholic principles.

The above prophecy from Holzhauser, a prophet greatly respected by Pope Benedict XVI, saying that the "Spirit of Wisdom will be diffused over the globes" in this future time of world peace, that is other planets, may hint at future space exploration and a significant advancement in this science, again in accordance with Catholic morality.

Its far-off to our eyes but all things are possible to God.
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Old Jun 29, '12, 6:13 pm
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Vouthon Vouthon is offline
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Default Re: Popes Calling for a New World Order?

According to Venerable Holzhauser, this age of peace will begin when the Jews are freed from persecution by a foreign power called by the biblical name of "Babylon", an ancient Empire which encompassed modern day Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebannon - this will be defeated by a modern day "Roman Republic", which will precipate the eventual creation of the "world political authority" or Federation of Nations:


"...The Sixth Epoch of the World commences with the emancipation of the people of Israel and the restoration of the Temple and of the city of Jerusalem and will endure until the advent of Jesus Christ.

For likewise, in this epoch, the people of Israel will be consoled to a very high degree by the Lord, our God, who will deliver them from the captivity of Babylon. The kingdoms, the nations, and the people will submit to the Roman Empire [new world political authority], furiously vanquished by the very powerful and very illustrious monarch who will govern during fifty-six years, rendering the peace of the universe...

Thus, in the Sixth Age, God will delight his Church with the greatest prosperity...The Lord will give good pastors to the Church. Men will live in peace and this will be granted because people will make their peace with God. Men will live in peace, each in his own field. They will be reconciled with the one God. They will live in the shadow of the powerful Monarch and of his successors. They will live under the protection of the Great Monarch and his successors..."


According to Holzhauser's prophecies all of this will be preceded by a great world crisis - a very bad war or series of conflicts, which has its roots in the relationship between two great superpowers/nations beginning in the later part of the 20th century:


"After a world war will come a new period, in which two mighty ones will face each other. The wrangle between these two will begin in the second half of the twentieth century. It will overthrow mountains and silt up rivers. A great change will come to pass, such as no mortal man will have expected; Heaven and Hell will confront each other in this struggle, old states will perish and light and darkness will be pitted against each other with swords, but it will be swords of a different fashion. With these swords it will be possible to cut up the skies and split the earth. A great lament will come over all mankind...Neither of the two adversaries will conquer nor be vanquished. Both mighty ones will lie on the ground, and a new mankind will come into existence...When everything has been ruined by war...the Hand of Almighty God will work a marvelous change, something apparently impossible according to human understanding...Persecution will cease and justice shall rule. Religion seems to be suppressed, but by the changes of entire kingdoms it will be made more firm. He will destroy the rule of Moslemism. His dominion will extend from the East to the West. All nations will adore God their Lord according to Catholic teaching. There will be many wise and just men. The people will love justice, and peace will reign over the whole earth, for divine power will bind Satan for many years..."

Both superpowers, according to Holzhauser, will prove unable to defeat each other and instead, from mutual agreement, a new world federation will arise in peacetime which Holzhauser calls a "new" Roman Empire.


BTW I think "rule of Moslemism" refers only to Islamic extremism
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With insight into the futility of narrow nationalistic politics, the countries of Europe which have agreed to delegate sovereignty to a supranational organism have embarked on a salutary way

- Pope Pius XII (1957)

Last edited by Vouthon; Jun 29, '12 at 6:28 pm.
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