Fr. Loya -- EC churches are not diaspora

DadDave · #1 Jun 30, '12, 11:27 am

I was listening to "Light of the East" and Fr. Tom said something that rather surprised me. He said something to the effect that the Eastern Catholic Churches in the US are not to be churches in the diaspora simply serving immigrants until they're fully inculturated. But rather these churches need to grow into their own US churches separate from their "Mother" churches.
I can understand from the Byzantine Catholic Church standpoint, given their situation as I understand it, but I couldn't figure how that work from... say the UGCC stand point.
Any thoughts on this?

ConstantineTG · #2 Jun 30, '12, 11:37 am

Well if EC Churches are just seen as "branches" that serve immigrants in the West, their growth will be limited and if the Vatican and the RC's in North America see it this way as well, then they will act in a way that will stifle the growth of these parishes in North America.

But the problem is two way as well. I know the Ruthenians want to be a North American Church. The UGCC, because of the sizable number of Ukrainians in North America, they still focus on Ukrainian immigrants and the generations that follow rather than focus on becoming a Church that is more welcoming to all. Although some Ukrainian parishes have realized this is the only way to grow, some are still "spoiled" I would say, that there are still many Ukrainians in their area. Thus not having the need to cater to the greater and more diverse ethnicities out there.

Peter J · #3 Jun 30, '12, 12:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadDave

I was listening to "Light of the East" and Fr. Tom said something that rather surprised me. He said something to the effect that the Eastern Catholic Churches in the US are not to be churches in the diaspora simply serving immigrants until they're fully inculturated. But rather these churches need to grow into their own US churches separate from their "Mother" churches.
I can understand from the Byzantine Catholic Church standpoint, given their situation as I understand it, but I couldn't figure how that work from... say the UGCC stand point.
Any thoughts on this?

It's hard to comment without hearing the full statement.

Hesychios · #4 Jun 30, '12, 12:45 pm

Another brave and correct call from Father Loya. The eastern churches should not think of themselves as diaspora, and elite or foreign to these lands. If they do think that way about themselves, how will others see them? It is time to start believing that the spirituality and tradition belongs here, is needed here and is good and a proper inheritance for everyone.

It is unfortunate that when the Ruthenian Metropolia of Pittsburgh was more vigorous and full of potential there was not more of an effort to evangelize. Now it is almost too late.

It is the same for all immigrant churches, like the Ukrainian, Romanian etc.. The spirituality of the tradition is a great gift to this culture and a source of hope for many. It seems to be fading away.

dvdjs · #5 Jun 30, '12, 4:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hesychios

Another brave and correct call from Father Loya. The eastern churches should not think of themselves as diaspora, and elite or foreign to these lands. If they do think that way about themselves, how will others see them? It is time to start believing that the spirituality and tradition belongs here, is needed here and is good and a proper inheritance for everyone.

It is unfortunate that when the Ruthenian Metropolia of Pittsburgh was more vigorous and full of potential there was not more of an effort to evangelize. Now it is almost too late.

It is the same for all immigrant churches, like the Ukrainian, Romanian etc.. The spirituality of the tradition is a great gift to this culture and a source of hope for many. It seems to be fading away.

[/quote] As Peter J noted, it's hard to comment on Fr.Loya 's remarks without the actual statement, but the statement above is odd.

I am not a fan of people from one particular church telling those of another what they ought to be doing. So I have misgivings if Fr. was talking to Ukrainians, Romanians, etc. But if he was talking about his own church - wow - get in the ballgame. That sense was central tot he feeling of the church since the days of Bishop Elko. I am not sure about Hesychios's swipe about evangelization, but the BCC was the first ECC to vigorously undertake establishment of mission outside of early immigrant home areas.

I have been around the BCC for well over 50 years - I never heard much of any talk of our link to a foreign Mother church, or to any sense that the church was provisional until the enculturation of the community. The idea that the spirituality of the tradition is a great gift to this culture and a source of hope for many was always present.

I think we really need a reality check on this one.

DadDave · #6 Jun 30, '12, 4:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter J

It's hard to comment without hearing the full statement.

http://www.catholicradiointernationa...toftheeast.php
Show #402 about 8:30 into the show

ConstantineTG · #7 Jun 30, '12, 5:35 pm

I think this goes back to what I was saying about Papal authority. Rome says Eastern Churches are this way, we should accept it. If we cannot, then we should follow the path of St. Alexis Toth.

dvdjs · #8 Jun 30, '12, 9:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

I think this goes back to what I was saying about Papal authority. Rome says Eastern Churches are this way, we should accept it. If we cannot, then we should follow the path of St. Alexis Toth.

Are what way?

ConstantineTG · #9 Jun 30, '12, 9:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvdjs

Are what way?

Interlopers in Roman territory

Peter J · #10 Jul 1, '12, 5:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

I think this goes back to what I was saying about Papal authority.

Open question for anyone: do you know whether Rome has ever used the term diaspora of Latin Catholics in the East?

ConstantineTG · #11 Jul 1, '12, 7:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter J

Open question for anyone: do you know whether Rome has ever used the term diaspora of Latin Catholics in the East?

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...-lumen_en.html

26. A particular thought goes to the lands of the diaspora where many faithful of the Eastern Churches who have left their countries of origin are living in a mainly Latin environment. These places, where peaceful contact is easier within a pluralist society, could be an ideal environment for improving and intensifying cooperation between the Churches in training future priests and in pastoral and charitable projects, also for the benefit of the Orientals' countries of origin.

mardukm · #12 Jul 1, '12, 9:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter J

Open question for anyone: do you know whether Rome has ever used the term diaspora of Latin Catholics in the East?

The term "diaspora" is used specifically of a sizeable group of people who leave their home country to travel to another. The Irish and Poles were termed "diaspora" when they came to the U.S. It has nothing to do with the Church or particular Churches, but with the nationality.

I don't understand the negative connotations people are attaching to it.

Blessings,
Marduk

mardukm · #13 Jul 1, '12, 10:02 am

Dear brother Constantine,

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

Interlopers in Roman territory

When you say "Rome," surely you are not speaking of the Pope or the papacy. Just want to be sure.

The beautiful thing about Catholicism is that there are no boundaries. Territoriality is actually an Eastern concept adopted by the Church, beginning with the rise to prominence of Constantinople. So don't blame the Latins for this one.

Blessings,
Marduk

mardukm · #14 Jul 1, '12, 10:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter J

Open question for anyone: do you know whether Rome has ever used the term diaspora of Latin Catholics in the East?

I believe it was used of Poles who went to Russia. As noted, it is a reference to nationality, not Church affiliation.

The other thing about the term "diaspora" that some may not be aware of is that it has a definite connotation that the movement was forced in some way (economic pressure, warfare, etc.).

Blessings,
Marduk

mardukm · #15 Jul 1, '12, 10:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

I think this goes back to what I was saying about Papal authority. Rome says Eastern Churches are this way, we should accept it. If we cannot, then we should follow the path of St. Alexis Toth.

It has nothing to do with papal authority. It has to do with the needs determined by the local episcopal conferences.

Blessings,
Marduk