Free Healthcare

Zosimus41 · #1 Jul 1, '12, 7:57 am

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.

This is actually has more than one author and taken from more than one quote.
However I believe it to be true. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury

Offering illegal immigrants sanctuary/citizenship (they cost the US billions of dollars a year)Free health care. Are financuals are finite we owe $1.16 trillion to China that we cant pay.And we want to vote for things that will cost this country God knows how much.

I know many will not like this anology...

On trick or treat night when the kids come to your door what happens when you just offer the bowl of candies? Those monsters will grab handfulls before you know it your either completely out or refilling your bowl.

Our nation hands us the perverbial bowl of handouts and people grab by the handfull. I guess until our resources run out then we will be in the same boat as Greece... bankrupt

seekerz · #2 Jul 1, '12, 8:03 am

Free health care, apart from that available at free clinics, is largely a MYTH. Everybody, including those on Medicare/Medicaid, has to pay premiums and out-of-pocket costs.

The real issue is universal health care, meaning care that is accessible to all, regardless of financial means. It is not free, it simply is determined by what one can afford to pay.

Zosimus41 · #3 Jul 1, '12, 8:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerz

Free health care, apart from that available at free clinics, is largely a MYTH. Everybody, including those on Medicare/Medicaid, has to pay premiums and out-of-pocket costs.

The real issue is universal health care, meaning care that is accessible to all, regardless of financial means. It is not free, it simply is determined by what one can afford to pay.

You right there are small fees. I work at a healthcare clinic for those who cannot afford to go any where else. If they cant pay for the visit then they dont. We get our operating costs coverd most part by donations. NOTHING IS FREE is my point.

At some point the cost effective healthcare we will all help to pay via taxes.

Nimzovik · #4 Jul 1, '12, 8:35 am

Health Care: Eliminate the middle man - government - and give the Helathcare tax dollar back to the citizen so he can shop for the Health care he/she wants!

seekerz · #5 Jul 1, '12, 8:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimzovik

Health Care: Eliminate the middle man - government - and give the Helathcare tax dollar back to the citizen so he can shop for the Health care he/she wants!

Right now the government is the only entity I know, standing between seniors and health care that is as much as 10 times more expensive. So eliminate them all right, just don't expect your dollars to buy more than peanuts.

seekerz · #6 Jul 1, '12, 8:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zosimus41

You right there are small fees. I work at a healthcare clinic for those who cannot afford to go any where else. If they cant pay for the visit then they dont. We get our operating costs coverd most part by donations. NOTHING IS FREE is my point.

At some point the cost effective healthcare we will all help to pay via taxes.

And that's the way it should be: we all need health care, we all should contribute whatever we can toward paying for it. One person has always covered another's costs, just in a hidden way. Now it's up front so we can see.

philial · #7 Jul 1, '12, 8:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimzovik

Health Care: Eliminate the middle man - government - and give the Helathcare tax dollar back to the citizen so he can shop for the Health care he/she wants!

And not just health care - let's eliminate the government in all things - roads, rail, air travel : all should be self-financing at the point of useage, As for military & emergency relief funds, well since these help & protect illegals as well as legals they're obviously not suitable for the tax-payer. I demand the right to buy my military protection from private providers, and will vote accordingly!

silly, eh?damn right!

Nimzovik · #8 Jul 1, '12, 9:02 am

Seekerz wrote:"Right now the government is the only entity I know, standing between seniors and health care that is as much as 10 times more expensive. So eliminate them all right, just don't expect your dollars to buy more than peanuts.

True dat.

The system(s) needs to be fixed. This is where Govt' should be working if Govt' is to be involved.

Being charged $50.00 for an aspirin while in the Hopital is absurd. Yes, this is what they charged during my stay.

Nimzovik · #9 Jul 1, '12, 9:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by philial

And not just health care - let's eliminate the government in all things - roads, rail, air travel : all should be self-financing at the point of useage, As for military & emergency relief funds, well since these help & protect illegals as well as legals they're obviously not suitable for the tax-payer. I demand the right to buy my military protection from private providers, and will vote accordingly!

silly, eh?damn right!

Quite right. SIlly indeed is such extrapolations.

Nimzovik · #10 Jul 1, '12, 9:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerz

And that's the way it should be: we all need health care, we all should contribute whatever we can toward paying for it. One person has always covered another's costs, just in a hidden way. Now it's up front so we can see.

Perhaps. That is the nature of Insurance yes? In this regard- "we all need health care, all should contribute whatever we can toward paying for it."

However, to let the camel's nose of Govt' in the tent, one ends up with the Pelosi types killing our Religion with the HHS mandate-yes?

seekerz · #11 Jul 1, '12, 9:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimzovik

Seekerz wrote:"Right now the government is the only entity I know, standing between seniors and health care that is as much as 10 times more expensive. So eliminate them all right, just don't expect your dollars to buy more than peanuts.

True dat.

The system(s) needs to be fixed. This is where Govt' should be working if Govt' is to be involved.

Being charged $50.00 for an aspirin while in the Hopital is absurd. Yes, this is what they charged during my stay.

That $50.00 aspirin is as good as you're going to get with the way things are presently run. Government can only determine what it feels is reasonable reimbursement for a health service or product (via Medicaid/Medicare). That influences, but does not dictate, what private insurers agree to pay. I'm pretty sure Medicaid/Medicare does not pay for luxury-priced Aspirins, so I'm guessing that you either have private insurance or pay your bills yourself.

You might look at the bill and consider $50.00 an outrageous charge, but if Medicare only agrees to pay $5 for that Aspirin, someone else will accuse the government of forcing hospitals to provide charity.

Seeker1961 · #12 Jul 1, '12, 9:21 am

You pay $50 for that aspirin because the hospital has to recoup the care it gives to those folks who can afford to buy health insurance but have chosen not to.

Governor Romney was right In Massachusetts-people who can afford health insurance should be forced to pay so that those costs aren't passed on to those of us who have chosen to be responsible and pay for our health insurance.

seekerz · #13 Jul 1, '12, 9:33 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimzovik

Perhaps. That is the nature of Insurance yes? In this regard- "we all need health care, all should contribute whatever we can toward paying for it."

However, to let the camel's nose of Govt' in the tent, one ends up with the Pelosi types killing our Religion with the HHS mandate-yes?

I believe that the HHS mandate will be dealt with definitively once the election rhetoric has faded. It is not essential to the ACA, nor does it, by itself, make the bill a bad one.

My personal preference is for health insurance via employment to be phased out. Let's face it, some people are going to use the money they are paid to do morally objectionable things - regardless of their employers' religious beliefs. We can't help that - the most we can do is be as far removed from those transactions as possible. Obama will have to yield on this one, but it's not politically expedient for him to do so right now (and political expediency is everything to politicians it seems).

For me personally, the whole issue is a technicality of sorts because millions of Catholics have private insurance which also provides those same 'objectionable' services to members; separate plans or no, it's the same entity the money is going to - for moral and immoral purposes. What makes tax dollars different? Because they are not voluntary and insurance premiums are? Tell that to the people who will file for bankruptcy this year over health debts...

seekerz · #14 Jul 1, '12, 9:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker1961

You pay $50 for that aspirin because the hospital has to recoup the care it gives to those folks who can afford to buy health insurance but have chosen not to.

Governor Romney was right In Massachusetts-people who can afford health insurance should be forced to pay so that those costs aren't passed on to those of us who have chosen to be responsible and pay for our health insurance.

I see you like Romneycare. I don't know why he would shy away the greatest thing to happen to health care in a long time, but then there's much I don't understand about politics and politicians.

Regardless, I believe the MA model is a good one and that the ACA should stand no matter who wins. The guys in places of power can duke it out, but the people need real solutions - yesterday.

jpjd · #15 Jul 1, '12, 9:40 am

"Free" health care is 100% myth. Freedom isn't free, and neither is health care. Someone else pays the price.

As one of those people who is paying the price, I have a problem with "free" health care.
"Free" health care does no favors to the insureds or to controlling health care costs, because the fact that it is free to the insureds means there is no financial incentive to maintain good health and avoid using the system. Also, "free" health care has the effect of being an incentive for people who are not really poor to try to get on it. (And please don't be naive to think that people don't fudge or outright lie about their qualifications to be eligible.) Also, "free" health care is an unsustainable system, as the costs of ever-increasing number of insureds and unrestrained utilization puts a growing burden on the the hard-working citizens who pay into the system through their taxes and excessive premiums and health care bills.