Miracle claims from different religions

Trebor135 · #1 Jul 3, '12, 12:44 am

Post #80 in this thread raises an issue that I've wondered about for some time now: how to distinguish between the miracle claims from different religions and discern whether some or any of the unusual events in question clearly point to the truth of one of them above the rest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradski

Let’s say that no-one had heard of Fatima. But let’s say that I related the events exactly as have been discussed. But I make no mention of the religion involved, the place where it was meant to have occurred or the nationalities of the people involved.

Do the facts stand on their own? Do you believe it because thousands of people were reported to have seen it? Do you believe the dancinf sun and the rain and the dry earth and the first hand accounts? Do you believe it must be true because it was prophesied? Or do you hold on any decision until you find out which religion the people belonged?

If I tell you that someone I know was seriously ill and was prayed over by my local priest and was immediately cured despite all medical indications that death was imminent, do you accept it as a miracle? The facts would be undeniable, there were witnessed galore, you can talk to them, you can talk to his doctor. Maybe you would accept it. Especially if the information above stated that I was a Catholic (you’d probably check, wouldn’t you). What if I then told you I’m Indian and only became a Catholic recently. And the priest in my village 40 years ago was Hindu.

‘My God performs miracles, therefore I can (in good faith!) accept any testimony. Your god doesn’t, therefore your testimony is a crock’.

Isn’t that the way it works?

Hokomai · #2 Jul 3, '12, 2:38 am

The first step is to distinguish between things that happen in the normal course of events, even if only rarely, and things for which intervention from beyond the material world was required. That rules out nearly everything I have seen claimed as miraculous. For the remaining things, you must then look at the nature of the evidence and whether the extraordinary claim is matched by extraordinary evidence (or even good ordinary evidence). If you have some left then, it might be useful to look at which god(s) or other beings were held to be responsible.

Bradski · #3 Jul 3, '12, 4:46 am

I'm pretty certain we have all read something and thought: I certainly don't agree with that. Then discovered that the person who wrote it is someone we hold in high esteem.

I've certainly done it in times past and found myself making excuses for why the person said it. Maybe it was taken out of context. We all have a tendency to listen to people who hold the same views and to readily agree with them. Almost by default.

Wouldn't it be interesting if we were all given the quotes, the speech, the article and asked if we agreed with the viewpoint before knowing its source.

Wouldn't the same thing be applicable to any account of a miracle? If the facts stand or fall on their own then we don't need to know who might be responsible. If you maintain that you do need to know then you are admitting bias.

**JRKH** · #4 Jul 3, '12, 4:46 am

I cannot speak too specifically since I make a point of not judging such things - after all - which of us really have all the facts....Especially on something that occurred long ago and far away...

In a very general sense, I look at it like this.
God can, does, and will work through whoever he chooses.
The Key to discerning if something is of God is "Love" (Agape)

I say this because in the final analysis there are only two spiritual forces at work, Good and Evil.

Peace
James

WoundedIcon · #5 Jul 3, '12, 6:16 am

This is a good question that came up for me yesterday as I had just found out that one of my friends became a Muslim after learning of the fact that a girl he knew, who was in a coma, awoke at the reading of the Quran. Kinda troubles me to tell you the truth. I'm sure it can be explained naturally, or even preternaturally, but then what's to stop one from turning that method of "explaining away things" on your own religion's miracles?

lssanjose · #6 Jul 3, '12, 6:24 am

Of particular interest for me is, this offshoot in the Philippines, called Banal Na Pagaaral (Holy Studies). It has a Catholic feel, with a slight (maybe major) caveat: the belief God/Jesus indwells in a Filipina lady, on occasion. Secondly, they address God as "mahaleng kong." Officially, they're not in line with Rome, meaning they're considered heretical at this point.

Trebor135 · #7 Jul 3, '12, 10:20 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lssanjose

Of particular interest for me is, this offshoot in the Philippines, called Banal Na Pagaaral (Holy Studies). It has a Catholic feel, with a slight (maybe major) caveat: the belief God/Jesus indwells in a Filipina lady, on occasion. Secondly, they address God as "mahaleng kong." Officially, they're not in line with Rome, meaning they're considered heretical at this point.

Never heard of them. Are they claiming miraculous healings and the like to bolster their credibility?

WesleyF · #8 Jul 3, '12, 8:30 pm

"Every good endowment and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change." (James 1:17)

The Catholic Church believes that it has the fullness of the faith, but it also believes that there are those who also worship the one God, although they may not have the fullness of the revelation about that God - for eg. Jews, Muslims, and all others like the Roman centurion (Acts 10) who pray to the one God.

Just because the Catholic Church has the fullness of the faith, does that mean that God cannot perform miracles among the Jews or among Muslims or among other people who profess one God? Of course not. Even in the Hindu religion, there are some who hold that there is only one God, as it is proclaimed in their holy books, the Vedas.

So it shouldn't be surprising if some miracle occurs in a religion other than Christianity. It would be surprising if more miracles occurred in other religions than in Christianity. That's certainly not the case!

The overwhelming number of miracles have been in Christianity. It is beyond dispute.

chataranga · #9 Jul 4, '12, 6:15 am

Of course it is not beyond dispute that more miracles happen in christianity. Miracles happen each day to each of us whether we profess a particular religion or not. The catholic faith may be the only faith that formally documents and publicizes events that it believes to be miracles while other faith traditions do not. We see what we believe. Blessings.