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  #1  
Old Aug 13, '05, 7:42 pm
JCPhoenix JCPhoenix is offline
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Default Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

I'm confused.

Several weeks ago I was at a retreat and we were referred to the book of Sirach for a particular passage. I had The Jerusalem Bible with me and could not find Sirach. It is a Catholic Bible.

The other day, I picked up my tattered copy of the New American Bible and read from Sirach and I am finding it to be one of my favorite books.

Anyway, then I looked again at the Jerusalem Bible, which is the one I read from most often. It does not have Sirach, but the same book is actually called Eccleasticus.

Then I went back to my New American Bible and found that it has both Sirach and Ecclesiastes, which is not the same thing as Eccleasticus.

My Ignatious RSV Bible also has both Sirach and Ecclesastes, but not "Eccleasticus".

Can someone help me understand why the books are different?

I know that some Protestant Bibles do not include Sirach, but why the name change, first of all, from Sirach to Eccleasticus, and why is Eccliastes then included in Ignations and NAB, but not New Jerusalem. All my Bibles are Catholic Bibles.

Anyone?
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  #2  
Old Aug 14, '05, 9:16 am
Genesis315 Genesis315 is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

The Douay Rheims translation has some differnet names for a few books. I think it has something to with the fact that it is translated from the Latin. Also, some names in the Bible are different: Noe for Noah and Elias for Elijah come to mind.
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  #3  
Old Aug 14, '05, 9:34 am
JCPhoenix JCPhoenix is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

I understand that there are different names for the books, but my question is why are some Bibles completely different?

My NAB has both Eccliastes AND Sirach (aka Ecclesiasticus), but my Jerusalem Bible and my Ignations Bible do not have Eccliastes.

The JB calls Sirach "Eccliasticus" and the Ignatious Bible calls it Sirach..the same book.


But only the Jerusalem Bible does not include Eccliastes at all. It is completely eliminated. Why?
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  #4  
Old Aug 14, '05, 9:42 am
Genesis315 Genesis315 is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCPhoenix
I understand that there are different names for the books, but my question is why are some Bibles completely different?

My NAB has both Eccliastes AND Sirach (aka Ecclesiasticus), but my Jerusalem Bible and my Ignations Bible do not have Eccliastes.

The JB calls Sirach "Eccliasticus" and the Ignatious Bible calls it Sirach..the same book.


But only the Jerusalem Bible does not include Eccliastes at all. It is completely eliminated. Why?
Well, it should have Ecclesiastes and Sirach/Ecclesiasticus. Count the number of books on the Jerusalem Bible and see if it has 73. It's possible that it may be named something else.
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  #5  
Old Aug 14, '05, 10:04 am
JCPhoenix JCPhoenix is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

I already did that. It's completely absent.
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  #6  
Old Aug 14, '05, 10:17 am
Fidelis Fidelis is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCPhoenix
I already did that. It's completely absent.
If this is true, you have a faulty copy and should return it to where you bought it. ALL Bibles (Protestant and Catholic alike) contain the Book of Ecclesiastes.
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  #7  
Old Aug 15, '05, 8:05 am
anawim anawim is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCPhoenix
I understand that there are different names for the books, but my question is why are some Bibles completely different?

My NAB has both Eccliastes AND Sirach (aka Ecclesiasticus), but my Jerusalem Bible and my Ignations Bible do not have Eccliastes.

The JB calls Sirach "Eccliasticus" and the Ignatious Bible calls it Sirach..the same book.


But only the Jerusalem Bible does not include Eccliastes at all. It is completely eliminated. Why?
Ecclesiasticus is the Greek name for Sirach, which is it's Hebrew name. I don't know what the Hebrew name for the book of Ecclesiastes is.
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  #8  
Old Aug 15, '05, 12:57 pm
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Zooey Zooey is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

The Hebrew name for Ecclesiastes is "Qoholeth".

But I checked both my Jerusalem Bible & my paralleel Bible that has the New Jerusalem Bible in it. They both have Ecclesiastes.

My guess is that the Bible is defective. The one folio was not bound into it, & yes, you should be able to have it replaced.

(This is rare, but it does happen....I once had a Bible that had the book of Isaiah in it twice--once in the regular place, & once in with the historical books. They had bound in an extra folio).
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  #9  
Old Aug 15, '05, 5:45 pm
Gottle of Geer Gottle of Geer is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey
The Hebrew name for Ecclesiastes is "Qoholeth".

But I checked both my Jerusalem Bible & my paralleel Bible that has the New Jerusalem Bible in it. They both have Ecclesiastes.

My guess is that the Bible is defective. The one folio was not bound into it, & yes, you should be able to have it replaced.

(This is rare, but it does happen....I once had a Bible that had the book of Isaiah in it twice--once in the regular place, & once in with the historical books. They had bound in an extra folio).
## My 1970 NAB has an extra folio at the beginning of the Biblical text; and many of the words are printed so close together (it's printed in two columns, divided down the centre, with notes at the foot) that they run on into each other. Most of the Catholic Bibles I have seen, appear to have defects of some kind - the 1979 Neo-Vulgata misprints arcus as acrus in Zechariah, the 1970 NAB is faulty, and so on. Even the Jewish Publication Society Bible of 1985 has a typo, in Joshua 16.5.

Modern Bibles are simply not proof-read properly - with the possible exception of Protestant Bibles: I have yet to find a misprint in them (commentaries are another story). Yet the Bible is of all books the one which, it might be hoped, would be free of blunders

I'm amazed to hear of a Bible missing an entire book ##
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  #10  
Old Jul 13, '09, 8:51 am
citizenDAK citizenDAK is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

Another possibility: Maybe it is just in a different location.
I have seen different orders for the same books.

BLESSINGS!
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  #11  
Old Jul 13, '09, 11:18 am
Omyo12 Omyo12 is offline
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Default Re: Sirach and Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCPhoenix View Post
I understand that there are different names for the books, but my question is why are some Bibles completely different?

My NAB has both Eccliastes AND Sirach (aka Ecclesiasticus), but my Jerusalem Bible and my Ignations Bible do not have Eccliastes.

The JB calls Sirach "Eccliasticus" and the Ignatious Bible calls it Sirach..the same book.

But only the Jerusalem Bible does not include Eccliastes at all. It is completely eliminated. Why?
If you have this Jerusalem Bible
Its located on page 855

Every Bible has Ecclesiastes

The Ignatius Bible (RSVCE)
has on page 601
The Ignatius Bible 2nd edition (RSV2CE) has it on page 511
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