Loyalist band filmed outside north Belfast Catholic church - Page 3

Monster Simpson · #31 Jul 14, '12, 1:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

Terrorist, what the big army calls the little one.

Terrorist, the little army that generally doesn't kill soldiers but a different set of people...

You can't say the IRA aren't terrorists.

triumphguy · #32 Jul 14, '12, 2:11 pm

IRA, UVF, UDA, UDR, Provos, RUC and sometimes the British Army either were or behaved like terrorists.

Sometimes the only way forward is by going forward and not looking back.

**JharekCarnelian** · #33 Jul 14, '12, 2:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Simpson

Terrorist, the little army that generally doesn't kill soldiers but a different set of people...

You can't say the IRA aren't terrorists.

Actually I would say in the early years of the present Troubles I would with reservations have been more likely to support them than later as I had ideological concerns with their methods and approach later. However to state the IRA did not kill soldiers in the main would be unwise as the main casualties of IRA attacks were Crown Forces and both sides killed civilians and if you use that as a critique of the IRA that is a double edged sword as Crown Forces were also involved in civilian casualties and their behaviour was by no means above reproach.

The old IRA of the 1920's which fought in the War of Independence was a different matter of course, three of my grandparents served in that war on the Irish side although amusingly enough my great uncle served on the British side in WW1 which preceded it by a short while and was invalided out of the army after a gas attack and was sharing his home home with his brother James (my grandfather) who was an IRA member.

**JharekCarnelian** · #34 Jul 14, '12, 2:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphguy

IRA, UVF, UDA, UDR, Provos, RUC and sometimes the British Army either were or behaved like terrorists.

Sometimes the only way forward is by going forward and not looking back.

|f the American army decided to occupy Canada tomorrow would you still adhere to this viewpoint?

Slaney · #35 Jul 14, '12, 2:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Simpson

Terrorist, the little army that generally doesn't kill soldiers but a different set of people...

You can't say the IRA aren't terrorists.

One time the people looked up to the IRA and even wrote on the walls I.R.A " I RAN AWAY "

So when it suited people, they supported the IRA, but then it went just too far, in their propaganda video's they always wore uniforms.

Internment without trial was the spark that got many young people joining up, men & women (Catholics) dragged from their beds and put in prison, ( BAD MISTAKE)

Also a bad mistake was not sending in the UN,we had protestant so-called soldiers, neighbours, working alongside their Catholic counterparts in factories etc; then those same people harassing them at road blocks etc;

So you can call the IRA terrorists, but they only ever saw themselves as freedom fighters, only difference between them and the so-called legit army, is the didn't have a license...

Monster Simpson · #36 Jul 14, '12, 2:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

Actually I would say in the early years of the present Troubles I would with reservations have been more likely to support them than later as I had ideological concerns with their methods and approach later. However to state the IRA did not kill soldiers in the main would be unwise as the main casualties of IRA attacks were Crown Forces and both sides killed civilians and if you use that as a critique of the IRA that is a double edged sword as Crown Forces were also involved in civilian casualties and their behaviour was by no means above reproach.

The old IRA of the 1920's which fought in the War of Independence was a different matter of course, three of my grandparents served in that war on the Irish side although amusingly enough my great uncle served on the British side in WW1 which preceded it by a short while and was invalided out of the army after a gas attack and was sharing his home home with his brother James (my grandfather) who was an IRA member.

Sorry, I know I was confusing by mentioning the IRA but I meant terrorists in general, not the IRA in particular.

**JharekCarnelian** · #37 Jul 14, '12, 2:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Simpson

Sorry, I know I was confusing by mentioning the IRA but I meant terrorists in general, not the IRA in particular.

I certainly don't view my two grandfathers and one grandmother as terrorists, I view them in the same way as an American might view ancestors who fought in the US War of Independence. They were honourable men and women who fought for their nation, just as my great uncle who fought in the British army was also an honourable man. As is my father who served in the Irish Defence Forces for a number of years.

Remember Britain has called many people who fought for freedom terrrorists in many of it's colonies and former territories. Amusingly it has often later paid respect to these people or allied with nations runs by administrations set up by the same people.

Monster Simpson · #38 Jul 14, '12, 2:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

I certainly don't view my two grandfathers and one grandmother as terrorists, I view them in the same way as an American might view ancestors who fought in the US War of Independence. They were honourable men and women who fought for their nation, just as my great uncle who fought in the British army was also an honourable man. As is my father who served in the Irish Defence Forces for a number of years.

Remember Britain has called many people who fought for freedom terrrorists in many of it's colonies and former territories. Amusingly it has often later paid respect to these people or allied with nations runs by administrations set up by the same people.

I consider a group fighting for independence revolutionaries/rebels (depends if I like their motives) but if they start purposely targeting peaceful civilians then they're terrorists, the IRA did this so I and many other people consider them terrorists.

bearer · #39 Jul 14, '12, 3:06 pm

I don't care for the crown or loyalists in any country, but as far as I'm concerned, they've got the right to be asinine in public. I would almost pity them, having lost 26 of 32 counties, thousands of comrades and "countrymen", and a good bit of pride over the centuries, etc. In any case, there's a time to rise up in arms and a time to snicker and let them be.

As for the IRA, I sympathize with those working, struggling, and even fighting for independence, but the socialists of today are a far cry from the faithful, freedom-loving people of yesteryear. Some are terrorists, some are not, but just about all are politically out in left field.

triumphguy · #40 Jul 14, '12, 3:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

|f the American army decided to occupy Canada tomorrow would you still adhere to this viewpoint?

That would be tomorrow, not yesterday.

When tomorrow became yesterday I might.

But there would be a lot of todays first.

didymus · #41 Jul 15, '12, 4:09 am

The sad fact is that peaceful protest just doesn't work.

If the the "terrorists" hadn't started bombing, those was no way the Orange/British gov't would have gone on their merry way oppressing Catholics. I suspect that the Good Friday accords would never have happened w/o the terror on both sides finally forcing the gov't to negotiate.

My problem with the IRA was that they were incompetent terrorists, indiscriminately killing Catholics as well as Protestants. Better they had gone after the political targets like assassinating Thatcher instead of Mountbatten -- that would be an accomplishment.

I remember when their plot to blow up the Tory party convention (certainly a legitimate target) and blamed their failure on "bad luck". Again with the incompetence.

Not Sure · #42 Jul 15, '12, 6:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphguy

HM the Queen didn't just make nice, she shook hands with the man responsible for the death of her kinsman, Lord Mountbatten.

It's time everyone grew up.

Little silly songs, and silly bands, playing silly buggers while the world moves on and makes them look utterly ridiculous - and I'm talking about the fenians as well as the Orangemen.

And Ireland would be better if all the pretend, and wannbe irish-americans backed off and looked after their own backyard. It wasn't so long ago that Americans were sending money to terrorists living in an allied nation.

The American Patriots were terrorists too. They rejected the sovereign authority of the King of England, and fought against him with violence, on land that was of the Indians.

If what the Irish did was terrorism (fighting for their land, faith, unity, against oppression and occupation, against centuries of basically apartheid), then look carefully upon what America has done. The British are still on Irish land.

and the only prejudice I have is being Catholic, I am not Irish in the least.
I don't support violence, but I know that one side has justification, and it at least started out as a just war.

Not Sure · #43 Jul 15, '12, 6:42 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Simpson

Ha lol, nd anyway if you tell the northern Irish who arent ethnically Irish then you might as well tell all white people living out of Europe to go back to Europe.

If they convert to Catholicism, they can stay.

LiarsAtCF · #44 Jul 15, '12, 6:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Sure

The American Patriots were terrorists too. They rejected the sovereign authority of the King of England, and fought against him with violence, on land that was of the Indians.

If what the Irish did was terrorism (fighting for their land, faith, unity, against oppression and occupation, against centuries of basically apartheid), then look carefully upon what America has done. The British are still on Irish land.

and the only prejudice I have is being Catholic, I am not Irish in the least.
I don't support violence, but I know that one side has justification, and it at least started out as a just war.

How does that saying go, "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter?"

Not Sure · #45 Jul 15, '12, 6:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

You could of course point out that King William of Orange was supported by the Pope of his day, a more educated class of loyalist will admit that for example and understand the reasons why this was so. Please also remember that with regards to Irish history Protestants are the forefathers in large degree of Irish republicanism.

Except that the Pope ended up supporting each and every one of the pretenders until Bonnie Prince Charlie went a little mad.