Trinity

[johnnyjones]

Originally Posted by meltzerboy

Well, the water-ice-vapor analogy falls under one of the heresies (I believe modalism) since the physical substance changes even though the chemical composition remains the same. And the one essence or nature is not meant to consist of separate things but distinct Persons: there is a difference. Nonetheless, I understand what you're saying.

I specified my example was not to be equated with the glory of the trinity.

[jochoa]

Originally Posted by komeeks18

I've been taught about the Trinity my entire life, I understand it mostly and believe it, but it's so confusing. I know the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God. But I don't understand why if they're all one why Jesus the Son would sit at the right hand of the Father. If they're one why would the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit be separate in Heaven if they're all God and in unity? Please and thankful!

I apologize for the late post. Excellent question, my friend! I recently stumbled upon this idea and would like to share it for your consideration:

To reconcile this, we must propose a definition for God. And here is the definition I have discovered which reveals the distinctions between each person.

God is the person who is always freely being and spreading the means to freely be perfectly patient, kind, and motivated with all the body, spirit (memory of person), thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self for the experience of limitless happiness with unbreakable peace for all, including the self.

Jesus Christ: The Holy Trinity: The Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is this person, God.

There are three methods of being this person:
1. Without beginning and without end. The Father.
2. Assumed to act outside of this nature, and in turn demonstrating this nature. The Son.
3. With beginning and without end. The Holy Spirit. <-- This is why the Holy Spirit is inside of us. We have the ability, through great discipline of embracing the cross daily, to one day be able to become, from that day until the end of time, "a person who is always freely being..."

Thoughts?

[Cavaradossi]

Originally Posted by jochoa

I apologize for the late post. Excellent question, my friend! I recently stumbled upon this idea and would like to share it for your consideration:

To reconcile this, we must propose a definition for God. And here is the definition I have discovered which reveals the distinctions between each person.

God is the person who is always freely being and spreading the means to freely be perfectly patient, kind, and motivated with all the body, spirit (memory of person), thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self for the experience of limitless happiness with unbreakable peace for all, including the self.

Jesus Christ: The Holy Trinity: The Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is this person, God.

There are three methods of being this person:
1. Without beginning and without end. The Father.
2. Assumed to act outside of this nature, and in turn demonstrating this nature. The Son.
3. With beginning and without end. The Holy Spirit. <-- This is why the Holy Spirit is inside of us. We have the ability, through great discipline of embracing the cross daily, to one day be able to become, from that day until the end of time, "a person who is always freely being..."

Thoughts?

This formula is uncomfortably modalistic. God is three personal realities, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, rather than just being one person with three modes of being. Furthermore, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all without beginning, and to say anything otherwise would be subordinationism.

[jochoa]

Originally Posted by Cavaradossi

This formula is uncomfortably modalistic. God is three personal realities, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, rather than just being one person with three modes of being. Furthermore, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all without beginning, and to say anything otherwise would be subordinationism.

Thank you very much for presenting the misrepresentations you perceive. Please consider updated semantics:

The Nature of God is: "Always freely being and spreading the means to freely be perfectly patient, kind, and motivated with all the body, spirit (memory of person), thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self for the experience of limitless happiness with unbreakable peace for all, including the self."
A. There are three real persons of this nature.
1. Without a beginning of being this nature and without ceasing to be this nature.
2. Assumed by another as acting outside of this nature, and in turn demonstrating this nature. <-- Hence, "incarnate by the Holy Spirit..." Or "Assumed a human nature by the Holy Spirit..."
3. With beginning of this nature and without end. When I state with beginning, I am not declaring that the person had a beginning, I am declaring that the person became one with this nature at a particular instance in a sequence of events. <-- Although the Holy Spirit did not have a beginning in "time", the Holy Spirit does proceed from the Father and the Son, therefore, there is a sequence of events to be recognized.

Therefore, God is the Holy Trinity: Three Persons in one nature.

B. When carefully analyzing the second person of this concept of the Trinity, it is important to recognize the following:
1. The Son is always acting in oneness with this nature, <- He is one with the Father.
2. However, He does some actions which are perceived by others as not acting in oneness with this nature (such as His anger in the Temple, which in reality is such an incredibly kind act).
3. Since He is perceived as not acting in oneness with this nature and allows this perception, he embraces a human nature (acting outside of the divine nature). <-- The Son born before all ages.
4. When He embraces the cross, He fully reveals the divine nature of freely being perfectly patient, kind, and motivated to all humans. <- Reveals the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, Jesus is God: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

5. It is now our free-willed choice to become one with His Holy Spirit. If we can become one with His Holy Spirit through the Sacraments, Greatest Commandments and embracing the cross daily, we will be One with the Holy Spirit.

Thoughts?

[sophion]

Originally Posted by johnnyjones

Can you comprehend that water can be a solid, a liquid or a vapor? I know you can. And you know that water in all those states is still water manifesting itself differently. Even in nature God gives us examples of the trinity.

thats not 'trinity'. its called 'oneness'. the father becomes the son, the son becomes the holy spirit, the holy spirit becomes father.


The perfect natural equivalence of the Trinity is the Split Personality Syndrome. Sort of like the Gollumn character in Lord of the Rings. One physical body possessing 2 or more distinct minds or personas.