Churches and rites ...

[patrick457]

Originally Posted by Vico

develop, intr. verb (Merriam-Webster): 1 "to go through a process of natural growth, differentiation, or evolution by successive stages"

Antioch assimilated Jerusalem, but the Liturgy of Saint James is of Jerusalem, and it is thought that the Liturgy of Saint James came from the Apostolic Constitutions.

There was a Gallican Liturgy once (theories are that it was centered in either Lyons, Milan, or a wider area including Spain, Gaul, and Italy). Since other liturgies were influenced by it, it is a parent.

IMHO it is more proper to speak of 'Gallican rites'. For the record, the present Roman rite and 'Gregorian' chant is actually Gallo-Roman, a hybrid of the original Roman rite and chant (aka Old Roman chant) and the liturgical customs and music of Gaul. The fusion began when the Franks decreed that the Roman form of worship be the standard throughout their domains.

[ByzCathCantor]

Originally Posted by Vico

develop, intr. verb (Merriam-Webster): 1 "to go through a process of natural growth, differentiation, or evolution by successive stages"

Oxford English Dictionary
verb 2. start to exist, experience, or possess

Thanks for trying to set me straight, but starting with a dictionary definition of a word with acceptable alternate meanings, used in this latter sense in original context, simply came across poorly. I will take it as a given that was not your intent.

The generally accepted view is that the Gallican family of liturgies originated in the East, possibly in Antioch, and after being adopted in Milan during the 4th century spread throughout the West.

source: A Short History of the Roman Mass - Chapter 3 - The Gallican Rite

[Vico]

Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor

Oxford English Dictionary
verb 2. start to exist, experience, or possess

Thanks for trying to set me straight, but starting with a dictionary definition of a word with acceptable alternate meanings, used in this latter sense in original context, simply came across poorly. I will take it as a given that was not your intent.

I suspected that. The information that I am showing is from the study I made in 2009 of the Adrian Fortescue works on the liturgies and churches. Some of it is published in the Catholic Encyclopedia (the original). The books I used were old hardbacks, I think there were three or four of them (I would have to search through my notes to get the exact names).

[Vico]

Originally Posted by patrick457

IMHO it is more proper to speak of 'Gallican rites'. For the record, the present Roman rite and 'Gregorian' chant is actually Gallo-Roman, a hybrid of the original Roman rite and chant (aka Old Roman chant) and the liturgical customs and music of Gaul. The fusion began when the Franks decreed that the Roman form of worship be the standard throughout their domains.

Yes, the historic rituals. That is also what I meant with this diagram:

Ancient Roman + Gallican -> Roman