Discharge Student Loan Debt

scc11 · #1 Jul 19, '12, 7:50 pm

Hi All,
I graduated from a four yr university in Dec 2011. I incurred 4about $37000 in student loan debt as a result. I was looking into a discharge option that allows one to discharge their loan debt if they have a total and permanent disability. Now in order to meet this criteria the disability must: (1) can be expected to result in death; (2) has lasted for a continuous period of not less
than 60 months; or (3) can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 60 months.

Mine meets all three of the criteria. Would it be morally wrong for me to try and get my loans discharged.
I know a lot of people will say well you just graduated go get a job or just wait and see what happens. The thing is I have a job and I only make $900 something a month, $600 of that goes to rent. Though I live with my Mom, I cant live there for free. Also, my condition causes me severe fatigue. I can get up at 8AM and be exhausted by 11:00AM/12:00PM.
I do have gaps in my employment history due to my condition and a lot of employers ask, why didnt you work for x amount of time. I am honest and say well I had to have surgery.

What are your takes?

triumphguy · #2 Jul 19, '12, 9:07 pm

http://forums.catholic.com/showthrea...63#post9544263

If you are trying to get admission to a religious order then they need to know of your total disability.

Or you need to give up on your disability claim.

You can't on the one hand prove total disability to get out of debt, and then turn around and tell the sisters/nuns that you are healthy and are not going to be a drain on their resources.

acarlson · #3 Jul 19, '12, 11:53 pm

I was going to answer that there seems to be no ethical (I assume you mean moral) problem. . .but then I read the post from triumphguy.

IN A NORMAL SITUATION, there would be no moral issue in getting student loans discharged if you have a legitimate permanent disability. The option exists for a reason, after all! I currently have around 35k in federal student loans after 3 years of college, so I understand how nearly impossible it is to get out of paying them back.

HOWEVER, since you've shown a curiosity about being called to the religious life, I am compelled to say that there IS a problem. It would be morally dubious at best and potentially grave matter at worst to tell the government one thing and the sisters another, as you may be put under oath at some point during the discharging process; willingly and knowingly lying under oath -- are you really TOTALLY and PERMANENTLY disabled if you are well enough to join a religious order? -- and knowing that lying under oath is grave matter, is a mortal sin.

As a side note, if you have a pre-existing serious disability, many religious orders WILL NOT allow you to profess final vows! My maternal great-grandmother was set to take her final vows as a Dominican nun; however, when it became known to the Sisters and her that she would have one glass eye and severe impairment in the other eye for the rest of her life, they had to let her go. It's different if you've made vows and THEN are diagnosed with a serious illness.

I would respectfully suggest that you pray on why you felt the need to omit this information about discerning a religious life when asking about the morality of an action that directly affects that process.

scc11 · #4 Jul 20, '12, 4:50 am

Thanks for your information. I am not looking to discharge me debt just because I am interested in joining a religious order. I have researched a few orders but apart from that I have not even been on a retreat or pursued me calling anymore than that. As far as the discharging the debt, I am looking at it from the perspective that I dont join an order and lead a somewhat normal life. Thus far, I continue to live with my Mom and pay her the majority of my check and even with that we barely make ends meet. I also do not have health insurance and any future medical bills I will have to pay out of pocket. As far as my condition itself, my doctor is very uncertain as to whats to be (only God knows).. He has even stated to me that I am so young and he is basically playing it by ear.

Jeremiah1278 · #5 Jul 20, '12, 7:14 am

scc1,

I see nothing wrong with discharging your debts if you meet their standards of total and permanent disability. The fact that some people will become permanently disabled and unable to repay has already been accounted for in the lender's business dealings. You are good.

Whether or not you are disabled such that you cannot belong to a religious order is a totally different question. I would have the debt discharged and address your qualifications for religious life separately. The standards may be totally different. (I have no idea). The lender's definition of total and permanent disability may be different from a religious order's.

It's quite possible that you are totally and permanently disabled by the standard of your lender and still meet the standards for belonging to a religious order.

Deo Gratias42 · #6 Jul 20, '12, 11:44 am

If it is completely impossible for you to pay off your debts, then no it isn't. However, you're responsible for attempting to take reasonable means to try to pay off your debts. In Canada there was a time when students would rack tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then file for bankruptcy as soon as they graduate and be relieved of their loan payment. Now such is not possible and loans are not discharged when a person files for bankruptcy under normal conditions.

You must in good faith do what you can first. Talk to your lenders about lowering your monthly payment, etc.

AskSeekKnock · #7 Jul 29, '12, 11:58 am

How can you meet criteria #2 - condition has lasted for at least 5 years - if you just graduated from university 8 months ago? If you were well enough for 4 years to attend college successfully I would think that would be considered evidence of having been well enough to work.

(and congratulations on the recent graduation).

There are alternatives. Look into income-sensitive repayment, if your loans are government loans. There is a cap on what you have to pay each month based on what your income is. If you keep paying that each month - even if it's nowhere near what you really owe - after a certain number of years (I believe 20), the rest of your loans can be forgiven.

Jonatello · #8 Aug 5, '12, 6:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by scc11

Hi All,
I graduated from a four yr university in Dec 2011. I incurred 4about $37000 in student loan debt as a result. I was looking into a discharge option that allows one to discharge their loan debt if they have a total and permanent disability. Now in order to meet this criteria the disability must: (1) can be expected to result in death; (2) has lasted for a continuous period of not less
than 60 months; or (3) can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 60 months.

Mine meets all three of the criteria. Would it be morally wrong for me to try and get my loans discharged.
I know a lot of people will say well you just graduated go get a job or just wait and see what happens. The thing is I have a job and I only make $900 something a month, $600 of that goes to rent. Though I live with my Mom, I cant live there for free. Also, my condition causes me severe fatigue. I can get up at 8AM and be exhausted by 11:00AM/12:00PM.
I do have gaps in my employment history due to my condition and a lot of employers ask, why didnt you work for x amount of time. I am honest and say well I had to have surgery.

What are your takes?

it is MORE than fine.

SerraSemper · #9 Aug 6, '12, 12:33 am

Gov't backed loans can be more fussy about how they judge disability than SSI and SSDI... You could be getting disability on SSI/SSDI and still not qualify for some arbitrary reason for discharge on student loans. If you have good documentation, a solid diagnosis, etc., then there's nothing to prevent you from filing. Like I said, they can deny you for the most arbitrary of reasons- or so I've been told. When you took the loan out, you agreed to the terms. The terms included reasons for discharge/forgiveness/reduction. That's part of what the interest rate is supposed to cover- people's defaults, discharges, deaths, etc.

Chrish1975 · #10 Aug 11, '12, 10:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by scc11

Hi All,
I graduated from a four yr university in Dec 2011. I incurred 4about $37000 in student loan debt as a result. I was looking into a discharge option that allows one to discharge their loan debt if they have a total and permanent disability. Now in order to meet this criteria the disability must: (1) can be expected to result in death; (2) has lasted for a continuous period of not less
than 60 months; or (3) can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 60 months.

Mine meets all three of the criteria. Would it be morally wrong for me to try and get my loans discharged.
I know a lot of people will say well you just graduated go get a job or just wait and see what happens. The thing is I have a job and I only make $900 something a month, $600 of that goes to rent. Though I live with my Mom, I cant live there for free. Also, my condition causes me severe fatigue. I can get up at 8AM and be exhausted by 11:00AM/12:00PM.
I do have gaps in my employment history due to my condition and a lot of employers ask, why didnt you work for x amount of time. I am honest and say well I had to have surgery.

What are your takes?

If you qualify for a discharge of the loan through an application or bankruptcy court then go ahead and do it. You have an unforeseen medical condition so you are not at fault for the liability of the loan. Good Luck.

CatholicSheila · #11 Aug 11, '12, 11:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremiah1278

scc1,

I see nothing wrong with discharging your debts if you meet their standards of total and permanent disability. The fact that some people will become permanently disabled and unable to repay has already been accounted for in the lender's business dealings. You are good.

Whether or not you are disabled such that you cannot belong to a religious order is a totally different question. I would have the debt discharged and address your qualifications for religious life separately. The standards may be totally different. (I have no idea). The lender's definition of total and permanent disability may be different from a religious order's.

It's quite possible that you are totally and permanently disabled by the standard of your lender and still meet the standards for belonging to a religious order.

I agree.

Tampa Dave · #12 Aug 19, '12, 5:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AskSeekKnock

How can you meet criteria #2 - condition has lasted for at least 5 years - if you just graduated from university 8 months ago? If you were well enough for 4 years to attend college successfully I would think that would be considered evidence of having been well enough to work.

(and congratulations on the recent graduation).

There are alternatives. Look into income-sensitive repayment, if your loans are government loans. There is a cap on what you have to pay each month based on what your income is. If you keep paying that each month - even if it's nowhere near what you really owe - after a certain number of years (I believe 20), the rest of your loans can be forgiven.

I agree.

scc11 · #13 Aug 20, '12, 6:25 am

Ive had the condition since I was 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tampa Dave

I agree.

maryjk · #14 Aug 20, '12, 8:01 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by scc11

Ive had the condition since I was 8

So when you signed the papers you had the condition and you knew about it? And now you want the debt to be discharged because you have a condition?

Did you have to sign loan papers? If so, I am assuming you signed them, since you got the loan. But now, you are claiming that an illness you have had since you were 8 is making it impossible to pay back?

scc11 · #15 Aug 21, '12, 6:36 am

Not saying Im going to. I went to my doctor not long ago and he said things are getting worse. Thats what Im taking into consideration and the fact that Im starting to feel worse. I thought when I started school everything was fine because I had surgery and at that point everything was good. Over my college years things got worse again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryjk

So when you signed the papers you had the condition and you knew about it? And now you want the debt to be discharged because you have a condition?

Did you have to sign loan papers? If so, I am assuming you signed them, since you got the loan. But now, you are claiming that an illness you have had since you were 8 is making it impossible to pay back?