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  #1  
Old Aug 17, '05, 5:19 am
Pythagoras Pythagoras is offline
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Default Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

I think I saw it somewhere in the internet years ago, can someone validate that while his mom is dying, he said to his mom to stick to the Catholic church?
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  #2  
Old Aug 17, '05, 9:25 am
cristian84 cristian84 is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

I had a deacon also explain this to me. He said that his mother was dying and that she apologized for not following him and his response was something like, you did the right thing or the better thing by remaing catholic and that she should not apologize.
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  #3  
Old Aug 17, '05, 9:28 am
cardenio cardenio is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

I heard that his last words were "I am still Catholic" but I don't know.
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  #4  
Old Aug 17, '05, 10:31 am
heisenburg heisenburg is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

Is there any Historicly verified documentation to back up the saying that he told his mother she did the right thing?

If so, it would be great to have when protestants try and defend luther. However.. I caution everyone else that reads this thread.. try not to use this when attacked UNLESS it can be historicly backed up... We are often subjected to revisionist history and out right lies about our faith, I would hate to see us be blamed of the same thing.

Truth is Truth

And that goes for anything,

I liken our faith to the saying that goes soemthing like Just because you dont believe the truth doesnt change the fact that it is the truth...

Even if it can be backed up, you knwo it will be contested when used as a defense for the Church. So i say again as a warning to all, only use it if it can be backed up lest we be guilty of the same thing...

Sorry for the rant... I could jsut see some people that read this board going off and saying "see.. luthers mom said this.. "

Cheers
Josh
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  #5  
Old Aug 17, '05, 10:35 am
PiusXIII PiusXIII is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardenio
I heard that his last words were "I am still Catholic" but I don't know.
My understanding is that Luther never stopped believing he was Catholic. My understanding is that he thought the Pope strayed from the true faith and that he was just restoring it.
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  #6  
Old Aug 17, '05, 10:58 am
mhansen mhansen is offline
 
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PiusXIII
My understanding is that Luther never stopped believing he was Catholic. My understanding is that he thought the Pope strayed from the true faith and that he was just restoring it.
This is my understanding, too. Luther never intended a split from the Church, and it wasn't until after his death that the largest "movement" started.
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  #7  
Old Aug 17, '05, 11:38 am
adstrinity adstrinity is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

Nope, I heard until his dying day, Luther was against the Catholic Church. I know we'd like to believe that he confessed to a chair and made the reply to his mom, but, he died a very unglorified and boring death, like a stroke or a heart attack while he was sleeping after retiring from eating a heavy dinner.
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  #8  
Old Aug 17, '05, 11:39 am
Contarini Contarini is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardenio
I heard that his last words were "I am still Catholic" but I don't know.
No, I believe his last words were, "We are beggars; this is true." ("Wir sind bettler; hoc est verum.") He also said something about Virgil if I remember rightly, but I don't recall the exact statement.

He may well have said something about dying in the true Catholic Faith, as any Protestant of that time (or a well-informed Protestant today) would. Protestants, after all, think they are Catholics or they wouldn't be Protestant. (Granted that most Protestants today are confused on this point because they accept the common meaning of "Catholic" as "in communion with Rome.")

Luther may well have advised his mother not to worry about doctrinal controversies but to remain in the faith she knew. Luther did not, as far as I know, advocate people to set up dissenting Protestant congregations in Catholic areas. While he was convinced that the Papacy was profoundly evil, that didn't mean that everyone who remained in the Catholic Church was outside true Christianity. He had a respect for simple people who didn't worry about controversies but simply put their faith in Christ and lived lives of charity.

Edwin
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  #9  
Old Aug 17, '05, 11:55 am
adstrinity adstrinity is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Martin_Luther According to wikiquote...

"We are beggars..." was his last known WRITTEN comment.
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Catholicism is the law of life, the life of the intelligence, the solution of all problems. Catholicism is the truth, and everything that departs from it one iota, is disorder, deception, and error. - Juan Donoso Cortes
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  #10  
Old Aug 17, '05, 12:06 pm
Eden Eden is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

I have seen two versions of the exchange that you are talking about.

In the first one, it is his mother who returns to the Church:

"I had not then read the account of the death of Martin Luther's mother, who, when she saw her last end near, asked her son to fetch the priest that she might make her confession, receive the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, and be anointed, that her sins might be forgiven her, according to St. James, v. 14. In reply to which Martin said: 'I thought, mother, that we had done away with all that long ago.' It is narrated that his mother answered: 'Yes, the new religion may be very well to live by, but the old one is the best for the hour of death.'" http://www.marysyellowstone.com/hope...a_Catholic.htm

In the second version, his mother never left the Church. It is Martin Luther himself who makes the statement but he is telling his mother that she was correct not to convert to his new religion. I have seen that version somewhere but unfortunately I can't find it again. Maybe someone else has seen it.
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  #11  
Old Aug 18, '05, 2:37 am
KWilliam KWilliam is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

Something very important to remember! Even if we found unassailable evidence that showed that Martin Luther repented of all he did and rejoined the Catholic Church at his death it wouldn't matter to a Protestant.

Using anything Luther said is nearly pointless when dealing with protestants. The only time they care what Luther said is when it agrees with what they believe Anything that disagrees with their beliefs (Luther's continuing Marian devotion for example) is tossed aside as 'unscriptural'.

It's important to remember, that protestants (even Lutherans lol) are Sola Scriptura, not Sola Luther
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  #12  
Old Aug 18, '05, 8:29 am
legeorge legeorge is offline
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Default Re: Luther wanted his mother to die a Catholic?

Sometimes I listen to the protestant radio station because I don't have satellite radio and there are no Catholic stations that I can tune in from my house. (I can sometimes get one in my car, though). Anyway, I heard a Lutheran on one of the programs who wrote a book about Martin Luther. He admitted that on his death bed, Luther refused to denounce his Catholic faith. So, apparently, they know this and it is not a problem for them. I guess they feel that they are following the true faith just like Martin Luther even though he called it Catholic? They also recite the apostles creed because the word Catholic means universal and doesn't mean the Catholic Church per se. Very confused people these protestants are.
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