Leaving the church - Page 3

ConstantineTG · #31 Aug 5, '12, 10:56 am

#26 That he who is not at peace with the Roman church shall not be considered catholic.

Gregory VII: Dictatus Papae 1090
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/g7-dictpap.asp

CMatt25 · #32 Aug 5, '12, 11:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

That is just polemics, IMHO.

Yes according to Websters, polemics involves dispute and controversy. In my experiences and discussions with Catholics it has appeared to me there is a dispute and controversy among some Catholics as to who is a Catholic. Such a basic teaching I would think everyone would be on the same page with. Which is why I went to a bishop. Who I figured knows since he is considered to be an Apostolic successor.

ConstantineTG · #33 Aug 5, '12, 11:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMatt25

Yes according to Websters, polemics involves dispute and controversy. In my experiences and discussions with Catholics it has appeared to me there is a dispute and controversy among some Catholics as to who is a Catholic. Which is why I went to a bishop. Who I figured knows since he is considered to be an Apostolic successor.

And as of my latest post above, Pope Gregory VII has declared that those who are not at peace with the Roman Church is not Catholic. So yes, one can indeed leave the Catholic Church and not be Catholic. Pope says so.

Franklin33 · #34 Aug 5, '12, 12:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by malik1982

ok, so what can i do to get excommunicated. I only joined while in an abusive relationship, I was controlled and he said he wouldnt marry me unless I joined his church. I've left him months prior to the scheduled wedding and going for mass only brings bad memories to me and I have not grown spiritually. I am a Christian and believe in God, but honestly this church isnt for me.

Im sorry to hearthat you felt you were "forced into the catholic church." and also that you were in a abusive relationship. I can understand why you would have bad memories when you go to that church on a sunday. However, if you are a christian and have a relationship with Almighty, then I would suggest you go to a different parish that you never went to with your ex. And when your there at mass, pay close attention to all thats going on at the altar ---- if you do and you study why the catholic church does the things it does and teaches what it teaches, as a christian my friend, you will grow in your walk with Christ more each time you attend mass. I was once Protestant for many years and since I have been in the catholic church i have grown so much more than ever before because its only in the catholic church that has the Fullness of the Truth. Dont make the mistake of leaving the church, the only church Christ Established over a bad marriage with your ex. You dont think your growing now, you certainly wont be growing in your walk any better anywhere else, im afraid to say. The problem with leaving the church is, most people get very comfortable staying at home on sundays, and thats no good! Im praying for you. -Mr. Franklin

CMatt25 · #35 Aug 5, '12, 5:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

And as of my latest post above, Pope Gregory VII has declared that those who are not at peace with the Roman Church is not Catholic. So yes, one can indeed leave the Catholic Church and not be Catholic. Pope says so.

Maybe he meant like others do that if they aren't at enough peace with, they're not going to be practicing. I guess I could ask the bishop if he disagrees with the late Pope. He already told me though what Church teaching was. I can't be asking every bishop, Pope, or priest.

perro sarnoso · #36 Aug 5, '12, 6:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by malik1982

ok, so what can i do to get excommunicated. I only joined while in an abusive relationship, I was controlled and he said he wouldnt marry me unless I joined his church. I've left him months prior to the scheduled wedding and going for mass only brings bad memories to me and I have not grown spiritually. I am a Christian and believe in God, but honestly this church isnt for me.

Best thing that could've come from this "relationship" is that you [became catholic].

If you are a christian, as you say you are, the lousiest decision you can make at this time is to leave the catholic church.

The catholic church is the one true church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as it's first pope....264 popes later to Pope Benedict XVI. And the gates of hell have not and will not prevail against her.

If you leave..........you will be sorry. I pray that if you do leave anyway.........that you'll come back- and this time for the right reasons.

thistle · #37 Aug 7, '12, 12:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

#26 That he who is not at peace with the Roman church shall not be considered catholic.

Gregory VII: Dictatus Papae 1090
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/g7-dictpap.asp

First there is controversy over whether Gregory VII: Dictatus Papae 1090 is even a genuine document or not and who wrote it and secondly even if it was you are referring to one-liners not even in any context.

Once a Catholic always a Catholic no matter how a person feels, what they think or do, even walking away from the Church. There are only two types of Catholic. Those who are in a state of grace and those who are in a state of mortal sin. Anyone who walked away from the Church would be a Catholic in a state of mortal sin and not an ex-Catholic or former Catholic.

ConstantineTG · #38 Aug 7, '12, 7:07 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistle

First there is controversy over whether Gregory VII: Dictatus Papae 1090 is even a genuine document or not and who wrote it and secondly even if it was you are referring to one-liners not even in any context.

Once a Catholic always a Catholic no matter how a person feels, what they think or do, even walking away from the Church. There are only two types of Catholic. Those who are in a state of grace and those who are in a state of mortal sin. Anyone who walked away from the Church would be a Catholic in a state of mortal sin and not an ex-Catholic or former Catholic.

One liner? I posted the entire enumeration. It is not like the line before and the line after has anything to do with the line I posted.

It is what it is, said document has been accepted and the basis for RC policy for centuries. The "once a Catholic, always a Catholic" is a modern concept introduced as a counter Reformation effort to tell the Protestants that they are technically under the Catholic Church (though they don't care for it). The concept of being once and for all a Christian did not exist in the First Millennium. Case in point, there were debates between Church Fathers whether heretics should be rebaptized or only rechrismated/reconfirmed.

thistle · #39 Aug 7, '12, 7:23 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

One liner? I posted the entire enumeration. It is not like the line before and the line after has anything to do with the line I posted.

It is what it is, said document has been accepted and the basis for RC policy for centuries. The "once a Catholic, always a Catholic" is a modern concept introduced as a counter Reformation effort to tell the Protestants that they are technically under the Catholic Church (though they don't care for it). The concept of being once and for all a Christian did not exist in the First Millennium. Case in point, there were debates between Church Fathers whether heretics should be rebaptized or only rechrismated/reconfirmed.

Let me repeat this again. A sacramentally baptised Catholic is a Catholic forever. Any Catholic who turns their back on the Church and walks away remains a Catholic but is a Catholic in a state of mortal sin.
Why are you trying so hard to convince everyone otherwise. Is this topic personal?

ConstantineTG · #40 Aug 7, '12, 7:48 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistle

Let me repeat this again. A sacramentally baptised Catholic is a Catholic forever. Any Catholic who turns their back on the Church and walks away remains a Catholic but is a Catholic in a state of mortal sin.
Why are you trying so hard to convince everyone otherwise. Is this topic personal?

I think it is you who have been, on a couple of threads, been trying to just counter what I say.

Anyway, believe me, if I leave Catholicism then I wouldn't care what Catholics think. I can pretty much say the same thing for everyone I know who has. But in any case, I am just stating the plain and simple fact here. This, "once a Catholic, always a Catholic," is more of a modern innovation than a belief held by the Church Fathers from the beginning. If you think that one cannot be a non-Catholic or even a non-Christian, then go and figure out what "anathema" means and why the Church Fathers use it against heretics.

Gorgias · #41 Aug 7, '12, 8:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

#26 That he who is not at peace with the Roman church shall not be considered catholic.

Gregory VII: Dictatus Papae 1090
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/g7-dictpap.asp

Hmm... this would seem to be applicable to those who wish to continue calling themselves 'Catholic', even though they aren't in union with the Pope. In other words, you can't go around presenting yourself as in union with the Pope if this is not the case.

Moreover, this decree, if authentic, was set prior to the Reformation, so it would seem problematic to apply it to a post-Reformation context.

Once a Catholic, always a Catholic. (For that matter, once a (baptized) Christian, always a Christian...)

twopekinguys · #42 Aug 7, '12, 1:17 pm

I found this on the Vatican website. It will either clear up the whole thing, or muddy it up even more.

Read it here.

ConstantineTG · #43 Aug 7, '12, 4:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by twopekinguys

I found this on the Vatican website. It will either clear up the whole thing, or muddy it up even more.

Read it here.

I'd like to compare that with what the Church has taught in the First Millennium.

kentuckyliz · #44 Aug 7, '12, 5:32 pm

I will leave the religious question to others.

I am more concerned about you. Wherever you go, there you are. Please seek out counseling from a source you trust. There is a deeper healing needed--to explore why you would tolerate abuse, and how to heal that so you won't ever again. Abusers and the abused find each other. A healing in this area will ensure that you never roll out the welcome mat for an abuser ever again.

Otherwise, in a few years' time, you'll be on a [fill in the denomination] website, asking how to quit the church, because you only joined because your next abusive fiancee forced you to.

I say this in love and wish you peace.

joanofarc2008 · #45 Aug 9, '12, 4:57 pm

My abusive ex-husband was my sponsor for my conversion into the Catholic Church. However, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. It took switching parishes. It took deepening my own faith. If you would like to PM and discuss this I would be happy to do so.