What Guys Think About Modesty

[Paddy1989]

I thought this was a VERY good clip on modesty from a male point of view, too many women and surprisingly even on this site reject that immodesty is even a sin which is dangerous. I feel it is mostly down to them not understanding the male point of view and the struggle's we have to go through every day because of it, both sexes have a duty in helping each other follow Christ which lead's us to the TRUTH in understanding our value and the respect and dignity which flow's from it. I definitely think this is something women should listen to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVMZoZoKT-o&feature=plcp

[TheDoors]

I find modesty to be *highly* attractive, and a gateway to other attractive things. The flesh is...well, distracting. And the flesh only stays that way for so long. Modesty invokes curiosity, but also lets one concentrate on building an actual relationship based on mutual understanding and communication rather than base lust.

[Paddy1989]

Originally Posted by TheDoors

I find modesty to be *highly* attractive, and a gateway to other attractive things. The flesh is...well, distracting. And the flesh only stays that way for so long. Modesty invokes curiosity, but also lets one concentrate on building an actual relationship based on mutual understanding and communication rather than base lust.

I agree and i also think we also should be more clear on the difference between physical attraction and immodesty as they can sometime's be confused

[Byrnwiga]

Originally Posted by TheDoors

I find modesty to be *highly* attractive, and a gateway to other attractive things. The flesh is...well, distracting. And the flesh only stays that way for so long. Modesty invokes curiosity, but also lets one concentrate on building an actual relationship based on mutual understanding and communication rather than base lust.

While I'm positive I'm going to take flak for saying this, but: I make an effort to not associate with people (men and women) who dress immodestly.


-Byrnwiga

[vjnycguy]

Great video!

[lerapt78]

The video was very heart-felt, and I can appreciate the earnestness of it. It also avoided condemnation, which is really the only way to get people to listen to a message, whether they follow it or not. In all honesty though, despite the narrator's charity toward women, the message inevitably places all the responsibility for men's thoughts upon women, and I don't think society will ever change the standard of dress unless the entire population is behind the effort.

I also think it went a bit too far when it suggested having a father screen his daughter's wardrobe. If it were up to fathers, we'd see thousands of burlap sacks - though it would be a great way for feed stores to drum up business!

[Paddy1989]

Originally Posted by lerapt78

The video was very heart-felt, and I can appreciate the earnestness of it. It also avoided condemnation, which is really the only way to get people to listen to a message, whether they follow it or not. In all honesty though, despite the narrator's charity toward women, the message inevitably places all the responsibility for men's thoughts upon women, and I don't think society will ever change the standard of dress unless the entire population is behind the effort.

I also think it went a bit too far when it suggested having a father screen his daughter's wardrobe. If it were up to fathers, we'd see thousands of burlap sacks - though it would be a great way for feed stores to drum up business!

I think it is a great thing for father's to screen his daughter's wardrobe's, all he would be doing is making sure there is nothing that show's reveal's too much, he wouldn't be acting as the fashion police . I have seen too many young women go out with miniskirt's, short short's etc and the mother remarking how nice she look's while the father is in horror lol, it is because he see's thing's as a man does and understand's it as such, the worst thing for him to do is to remain passive like so many do. Remember the father is to be the spiritual head of the family, too many forget and reject this and then they complain when men aren't masculine enough in their Catholicism and stray away

[Portrait]

Originally Posted by Paddy1989

I think it is a great thing for father's to screen his daughter's wardrobe's, all he would be doing is making sure there is nothing that show's reveal's too much, he wouldn't be acting as the fashion police . I have seen too many young women go out with miniskirt's, short short's etc and the mother remarking how nice she look's while the father is in horror lol, it is because he see's thing's as a man does and understand's it as such, the worst thing for him to do is to remain passive like so many do. Remember the father is to be the spiritual head of the family, too many forget and reject this and then they complain when men aren't masculine enough in their Catholicism and stray away

Dear Paddy1989,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly good post that, if I may say.

A moral obligation is laid upon Catholic parents to ensure that their daughters are not attired in seductive style fashions, which will result in them being viewed as an assemblege of body parts. It is a dereliction of parental responsbility to be indifferrent as to what our daughters are wearing in public and it is inexcusable to buy them immodest garments, such as mini-skirts or dresses with low neckline's. You are quite right, dear friend, the father is the head and spiritual leader of the family and has a duty to assert his authority in such mattters, albeit not in an imperious manner.

Alas, dear friend, we hear so much nowadays, even within supposedly conservative Catholic circles, about chaps being responsible for their own unchaste thoughts. Indeed, it is sometimes unkindly remarked that if they are unable to subdue impure thoughts, then they are in need of some professional help. Such comments only reveal that those who utter them have not seriously reckoned with man's fallen nature and his propensity to sin, owing to concupiscence. Of course a man is responsible for the custody of his eyes and no orthodox Catholic would stop to deny this (cf. Job 31: 1), but, equally, a woman also has a duty to don modest attire that does transgress the boundaries of propriety. It is both un-Catholic and un-balanced to contend, as some are wont to do, that the onus is entirely upon men to bridle their unchaste thoughts. Women cannot, and should not, be exonerated from the duty of being clad in decent aparrel (I Tim. 2: 9), which has always been the consistent teaching of Holy Mother Church down through the ages. Here is how a pre-Vatican II manual of instructions in the Catholic faith puts it:

"The virtue of modesty is the virtue which protects chastity by inclining us to guard our senses, so as not to invite temptation, and to be considerate in our dress and behaviour, so as not to cause temptation in others".

(Christ in Us, Killgallon and Weber, Sheed & Ward, 1959, p. 269, added emphasis mine).

Listening to some modern Catholics, one could be forgiven for thinking that women were no longer responsible for their choice of clothing and that it was perfectly permissible for them to be clad in provocative attire that invites and is the occasion of temptation in others.

The problem surely today, dear friend, is that most women live and move in a decadent culture that no longer inculcates to them the concept of personal sensitivity. The sexualisation of our Western culture encourages them, even from a tender age, to dress in a provocative manner. Thus it takes a very pious woman indeed to swim against the stream and dare to dress differently from her contemporaries. This is why Catholic parents must not be lax in teaching their daughters (and sons) the importance of being clad in modest attire, so that they will be well trained early and be better able to resist the allure of godless clothing fashions. The times in which our lot is cast demand strict discipline and as long as our children and youth remain under our roof they must obey their parents.


God bless.


Warmest good wishes,



Portrait



Pax

[Walking_Home]

Look to yourselves. What is within your mind and heart -- and take responsibility for your own thoughts. Quit using women as scapegoats.

[AdamPeter]

Originally Posted by Walking_Home

Look to yourselves. What is within your mind and heart -- and take responsibility for your own thoughts. Quit using women as scapegoats.

Amen.

Sense and sanity!



It's a fact of life that some women will dress immodestly in today's society. We can try to change this. But it's also up to men to be upstanding and gentlemanly.

This video was over the top.

[edwest2]

Originally Posted by lerapt78

The video was very heart-felt, and I can appreciate the earnestness of it. It also avoided condemnation, which is really the only way to get people to listen to a message, whether they follow it or not. In all honesty though, despite the narrator's charity toward women, the message inevitably places all the responsibility for men's thoughts upon women, and I don't think society will ever change the standard of dress unless the entire population is behind the effort.

I also think it went a bit too far when it suggested having a father screen his daughter's wardrobe. If it were up to fathers, we'd see thousands of burlap sacks - though it would be a great way for feed stores to drum up business!

Fathers - missing in action. Growing up in the past, no father ever insisted that his daughter wear a burlap sack. Today, fathers are either not there to begin with or if they are, our current "popular media" portrays them as inept or easily disposed of via divorce. Marriage is a partnership. Today, too many people have the totally wrong idea that men are in competition, and that anything they say, well, it doesn't matter much. Or some have just allowed themselves to believe that whatever their daughters are wearing is OK. After all, aren't all their friends wearing the same thing?

Catholic Dads, please wake up.


And no, society is not the issue, individuals are. Each set of parents can completely ignore what society thinks is good or average or normal.



Peace,
Ed

[Just Lurking]

Here is one counterpoint. Quote: "You cannot consider women full human beings unless you recognize that their lives do not revolve around the male sex drive."

[Just Lurking]

Originally Posted by lerapt78

If it were up to fathers, we'd see thousands of burlap sacks - though it would be a great way for feed stores to drum up business!

I believe it's called a burka (see here).

[lerapt78]

Originally Posted by Walking_Home

Look to yourselves. What is within your mind and heart -- and take responsibility for your own thoughts. Quit using women as scapegoats.

Ever hear guys complain how women say they want the "nice" men, but always go for the bad boys? This is an example of women sending mixed messages to men by saying one thing, but acting upon a another. It's an example of female lust, displayed through sexual selection (despite some men thinking they are the only ones who struggle with this problem). I imagine it's extremely frustrating to men who try to be what many women say they desire, only to see them choose the opposite. What we have here with the modesty subject is a similar principle, only in reverse - some men are sending mixed messages to women via how they tell women they respect the virtuous-looking ones, versus who the women see them actually chase. Instead of collectively choosing to combat immodesty through their influence upon their peers though, they instead shift the responsibility (and blame) to women.

Originally Posted by edwest2

Fathers - missing in action. Growing up in the past, no father ever insisted that his daughter wear a burlap sack.

I was exaggerating slightly here.

Originally Posted by edwest2

Today, fathers are either not there to begin with or if they are, our current "popular media" portrays them as inept or easily disposed of via divorce. Marriage is a partnership. Today, too many people have the totally wrong idea that men are in competition, and that anything they say, well, it doesn't matter much.

EdWest, I often agree with you on many points you make, but I think you're slightly off here. The immodesty issue, in my opinion, has nothing to do with usurping honorable fatherly leadership; rather, I think it has more to do with fathers wanting to shield their daughters from male attention - in many cases the male attention they themselves gave to someone else's immodestly-dressed daughter when they were young. I think many daughters and wives see this as hypocrisy, not honorable guidance, and that is why they choose to ignore it, not because they don't respect their fathers/husbands in general. Immodesty on the part of women is not an attempt to counter male dominance, but an attempt to seek male approval in today's world which practically demands it.

Originally Posted by Just Lurking

Here is one counterpoint. Quote: "You cannot consider women full human beings unless you recognize that their lives do not revolve around the male sex drive."

Interesting article. I think it was a bit extreme, but it did raise some points I hadn't thought of. It is certainly prudent of women to be cognizant of how they are attired, but it is not right for them to have to drive themselves crazy over it.

[ejp123]

Originally Posted by Paddy1989

I thought this was a VERY good clip on modesty from a male point of view, too many women and surprisingly even on this site reject that immodesty is even a sin which is dangerous. I feel it is mostly down to them not understanding the male point of view and the struggle's we have to go through every day because of it, both sexes have a duty in helping each other follow Christ which lead's us to the TRUTH in understanding our value and the respect and dignity which flow's from it. I definitely think this is something women should listen to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVMZoZoKT-o&feature=plcp

Overall, I like the video. I don't like in your face sexuality. I definitely prefer a modest woman and give thx to my sister and mother for role modeling this. However, I think we need to be careful about going to the opposite extreme such as sexually repressing and oppressing ourselves. I don't think it is realistic to think we can just stop feeling sexual urges, feelings and attraction, and lock it in a box until we are married. This is like psychologically nudering ourselves which is unhealthy and emasculating and can cause psycho-sexual damage. We shouldn't feel ashamed of our sexuality or think that it is evil when we feel aroused. It is there for a reason and should be managed appropriately. There has to be a healthy realistic balance in there somewhere.