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  #1  
Old Aug 6, '12, 6:24 am
timwatt timwatt is offline
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Default Gay couple denied apartment

Gay couple denied apartment
http://www.xtra.ca/public/Toronto/Ga...ton-12355.aspx

In Ontario, Canada it is a human rights violation to discriminate against someone based on sexual orientation in the areas of:

1) Employment
2) Accomodation
3) Goods
4) Services & facilities
5) Membership in vocational associations and trade unions

In this story, the rental agent refuses to allow a gay couple to rent her apartment because they're gay. One of her arguments is that she has tenants who are Seventh Day Adventists, and they told her they don't want to have a gay couple living in the building.

As a Catholic, what would you do in this situation? Would you discriminate against the gay couple in the area of accommodation, having full knowledge that doing so is against the law, on the grounds of your religion? Or would you abide by the Human Rights Code as a law-abiding citizen? Filing a human rights complaint is taken very seriously in Ontario, which could result in damages paid to the complainant.

The gay couple have filed a complaint to the Ontario Human Rights Code.
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  #2  
Old Aug 6, '12, 6:41 am
hannajomar hannajomar is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

It seems to be a slippery slope to not rent to people who are openly engaging in sin. If we denied them because of homosexual behavior, should we also deny fallen-away Catholics who refuse to go to Sunday Mass? What about a woman who dresses immodestly, or someone who works at Planned Parenthood?

I do, however, believe the landlord should have the right to rent to anyone they choose and deny renting to anyone the choose for any reason. I'm in an interracial marriage, which is often compared to gay marriage for the purposes of discrimination. Personally, I wouldn't want to rent from anyone who disagreed with my choice of who to be with. I wouldn't want to buy a wedding cake from them either. They don't deserve my money.
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  #3  
Old Aug 6, '12, 7:21 am
AdamPeter AdamPeter is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

On one hand the landlord does have the right to hold their own personal bigotries and prejudices...in their head.

As a catholic, I try to err on the side of being charitable. Gay people deserve respect and dignity...and a place to live.


I'm not sure there is a specific "right" or "wrong" in this scenario but I think it's a situation where the landlord may have been in a position of spiritual influence. Thats really what matters. People respond better to kindness.

We must try to be Christ to everyone we encounter.
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  #4  
Old Aug 6, '12, 7:25 am
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LeafByNiggle LeafByNiggle is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannajomar View Post
It seems to be a slippery slope to not rent to people who are openly engaging in sin. If we denied them because of homosexual behavior, should we also deny fallen-away Catholics who refuse to go to Sunday Mass? What about a woman who dresses immodestly, or someone who works at Planned Parenthood?

I do, however, believe the landlord should have the right to rent to anyone they choose and deny renting to anyone the choose for any reason. I'm in an interracial marriage, which is often compared to gay marriage for the purposes of discrimination. Personally, I wouldn't want to rent from anyone who disagreed with my choice of who to be with. I wouldn't want to buy a wedding cake from them either. They don't deserve my money.
You first and second paragraphs seem contradictory. But I think the reason you have the luxury of deciding not to rent from someone who doesn't want to rent to you is that you live in a society where laws against that kind of discrimination are in place. You know that if this one landlord doesn't want your business then you can find some other landlord who will rent to you. But if the landlord did have the right by law to refuse to rent to you for reasons of race then history has shown that in areas where bigotry is strong, bigotry will remain strong and you might not find any decent place that will rent to you. And after enough time goes by and hearts are changed then the necessity of these laws may go away. But I don't think the position of blacks in the South in the US would have been what it is today if there were never any laws against discrimination in accommodations and services.
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  #5  
Old Aug 6, '12, 7:34 am
garn9173 garn9173 is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Why on earth would the landlord be asking about one's sexual orentation? It would be discrimination to not rent to the couple and thus illegal.
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  #6  
Old Aug 6, '12, 8:10 am
fix fix is offline
 
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Posts: 18,519
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by timwatt View Post
Gay couple denied apartment
http://www.xtra.ca/public/Toronto/Ga...ton-12355.aspx

In Ontario, Canada it is a human rights violation to discriminate against someone based on sexual orientation in the areas of:

1) Employment
2) Accomodation
3) Goods
4) Services & facilities
5) Membership in vocational associations and trade unions

In this story, the rental agent refuses to allow a gay couple to rent her apartment because they're gay. One of her arguments is that she has tenants who are Seventh Day Adventists, and they told her they don't want to have a gay couple living in the building.

As a Catholic, what would you do in this situation? Would you discriminate against the gay couple in the area of accommodation, having full knowledge that doing so is against the law, on the grounds of your religion? Or would you abide by the Human Rights Code as a law-abiding citizen? Filing a human rights complaint is taken very seriously in Ontario, which could result in damages paid to the complainant.

The gay couple have filed a complaint to the Ontario Human Rights Code.
This may give you some insight:

Quote:
11. There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.

12. Homosexual persons, as human persons, have the same rights as all persons including the right of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity (cf. no. 10). Among other rights, all persons have the right to work, to housing, etc. Nevertheless, these rights are not absolute. They can be legitimately limited for objectively disordered external conduct. This is sometimes not only licit but obligatory. This would obtain moreover not only in the case of culpable behavior but even in the case of actions of the physically or mentally ill. Thus it is accepted that the state may restrict the exercise of rights, for example, in the case of contagious or mentally ill persons, in order to protect the common good.
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  #7  
Old Aug 6, '12, 9:01 am
Ad Infinitum Ad Infinitum is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Thats just sad.Really sad.
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  #8  
Old Aug 6, '12, 9:28 am
meltzerboy meltzerboy is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by timwatt View Post
Gay couple denied apartment
http://www.xtra.ca/public/Toronto/Ga...ton-12355.aspx

In Ontario, Canada it is a human rights violation to discriminate against someone based on sexual orientation in the areas of:

1) Employment
2) Accomodation
3) Goods
4) Services & facilities
5) Membership in vocational associations and trade unions

In this story, the rental agent refuses to allow a gay couple to rent her apartment because they're gay. One of her arguments is that she has tenants who are Seventh Day Adventists, and they told her they don't want to have a gay couple living in the building.

As a Catholic, what would you do in this situation? Would you discriminate against the gay couple in the area of accommodation, having full knowledge that doing so is against the law, on the grounds of your religion? Or would you abide by the Human Rights Code as a law-abiding citizen? Filing a human rights complaint is taken very seriously in Ontario, which could result in damages paid to the complainant.

The gay couple have filed a complaint to the Ontario Human Rights Code.
The excuse sounds more ridiculous to me than if the rental agent was just plain prejudiced against renting to gay couples, namely that her refusal is based on the views of other tenants (although such things do happen in co-ops which have tenant boards). I once had an experience in which my non-Jewish landlady told me flat out they do not rent to Black people and prefer renting to Jews such as myself because we are supposedly so intellectual. I hardly knew what to say but really needed the apartment so I signed the lease despite my misgivings. To this day, I regret not standing up for my principles.
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  #9  
Old Aug 6, '12, 9:31 am
april32010 april32010 is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

i was denied an apartment thirty-some years ago because i and my girlfriend were not married.the woman i was trying to rent from chastised for ten minutes or so,while poking me in chest with her boney finger the whole time,for living in sin.at that time i had no problem with it ,and i still don't.she owns the property and she can rent it to anyone she wants to.before anyone asks, for any reason.the problem with anti-discrimination laws,i might not want to hire or rent to someone for perfectly moral and/or valid reasons,and others who have no morals ,will sit in judgement whether those reasons are moral,
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  #10  
Old Aug 6, '12, 9:33 am
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JRKH JRKH is online now
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by timwatt View Post
Gay couple denied apartment
http://www.xtra.ca/public/Toronto/Ga...ton-12355.aspx

In Ontario, Canada it is a human rights violation to discriminate against someone based on sexual orientation in the areas of:

1) Employment
2) Accomodation
3) Goods
4) Services & facilities
5) Membership in vocational associations and trade unions

In this story, the rental agent refuses to allow a gay couple to rent her apartment because they're gay. One of her arguments is that she has tenants who are Seventh Day Adventists, and they told her they don't want to have a gay couple living in the building.

As a Catholic, what would you do in this situation? Would you discriminate against the gay couple in the area of accommodation, having full knowledge that doing so is against the law, on the grounds of your religion? Or would you abide by the Human Rights Code as a law-abiding citizen? Filing a human rights complaint is taken very seriously in Ontario, which could result in damages paid to the complainant.

The gay couple have filed a complaint to the Ontario Human Rights Code.
On the grounds of my religion I would rent the apartment...
1) Why should I be inquiring about their sexual orientation? It does not relate to the rental
2) Jesus said "Render unto Caesar" - and in this case - the Law is the Law and not problematic.
3) It is not legitimate to refuse to rent based on the opinion of the other tenants...
4) The Principle of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" applies here and demands that, since I do not wish to be "discriminated against" I may not discriminate others.

Peace
James
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  #11  
Old Aug 6, '12, 9:36 am
Deo Gratias42 Deo Gratias42 is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by garn9173 View Post
Why on earth would the landlord be asking about one's sexual orentation? It would be discrimination to not rent to the couple and thus illegal.
I don't know about you, but before I rent a place, I look at it first. It's not unreasonable to assume that the couple went to look at the apartment together and something was either said or occurred that indicated these two were a couple.

I've been discriminated against because I wasn't either Mormon or "Christian".
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  #12  
Old Aug 6, '12, 9:40 am
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benjammin benjammin is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

I don't really think this is right. I mean why does sexual orientation matter in renting an apartment. Unless it was maybe an apartment owned by the diocese as part of a low income housing project (even then I still wouldn't discriminate) I don't think its moral. Whats next, do we deny gay people care at catholic hospitals, do we start denying adulterers and people who watch porn from renting an apartment. I understand people want to be moral and follow the church, but we must be sensible and do it with love, not hate
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  #13  
Old Aug 6, '12, 9:42 am
fix fix is offline
 
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by timwatt View Post
As a Catholic, what would you do in this situation? Would you discriminate against the gay couple in the area of accommodation, having full knowledge that doing so is against the law, on the grounds of your religion?
I do not know if a Catholic must decline to rent to such persons, but I cannot see how it would be immoral to decline to rent to them. There is no moral absolute right to renting an apartment. Certainly if one is concerned about illcit cooperation with evil or giving scandal one is justified in not renting.

We cannot turn civil legal justifications into a type of god that demands we conform our consciences to the world.
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  #14  
Old Aug 6, '12, 9:47 am
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SwizzleStick SwizzleStick is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by fix View Post
I do not know if a Catholic must decline to rent to such persons, but I cannot see how it would be immoral to decline to rent to them. There is no moral absolute right to renting an apartment. Certainly if one is concerned about illcit cooperation with evil or giving scandal one is justified in not renting.

We cannot turn civil legal justifications into a type of god that demands we conform our consciences to the world.
Good points. Same sex roommates are not at all unusual, or didn't used to be (maybe that has changed a bit), but if two men or two women are known to be a "couple," then I guess one would have to consider illicit cooperation with evil or giving scandal. It would be a tough situation to find oneself in from a faithful Catholic viewpoint. Maybe finding another means of income would be in order.

Last edited by SwizzleStick; Aug 6, '12 at 9:59 am.
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  #15  
Old Aug 6, '12, 9:55 am
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WingsOfEagles WingsOfEagles is offline
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Default Re: Gay couple denied apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by garn9173 View Post
Why on earth would the landlord be asking about one's sexual orentation? It would be discrimination to not rent to the couple and thus illegal.
I think either one of them on their own would have possibly been able to rent. It was just obvious that the two men are a couple (these things are obvious without asking sometimes).

That being said, as a landlord, I would assume that one knows you can't not rent to them based on those grounds in Canada. I don't support gay couples living a gay lifestyle, but they also deserve a place to live. Landlords should be more concerned with a person's renting history. Do they pay their bills on time? Do the keep the apartment in good order on move out?

Here's a question to pose. Would the landlord have been nearly as concerned with an unmarried heterosexual couple living there. Chances are he wouldn't have bothered to even find out if the couple was actually married.
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