ABC: Embryo does not feel pain

[Pumpkin]

Did anyone else see the news story this evening regarding a research study done indicating that embryo's allegedly do not feel pain until 28 weeks?



Which the media was saying was a a blow to the "anti-abortion" movement.

They miss the point... Regardless of if a person feels pain, it is still wrong to end a life.

It was followed by a story about the DaVincci Code.

[Mom of one]

Are they trying to say that getting ripped apart or cut to pieces feels GOOD?!?!

[WanderAimlessly]

First the buckle under to terrorists (See: Talk-show host fired for linking Islam, terror ) now this.

More reasons to boycott ABC and their parent company Disney.

PF

[Traditional Ang]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

Did anyone else see the news story this evening regarding a research study done indicating that embryo's allegedly do not feel pain until 28 weeks?



Which the media was saying was a a blow to the "anti-abortion" movement.

They miss the point... Regardless of if a person feels pain, it is still wrong to end a life.

It was followed by a story about the DaVincci Code.

Pumpkin:

Fetuses (I'm purposely using the scientific term) have organized Brain Wave Activity that's detectable by EEG beginning by 22 weeks of age. This has been replicated in dozens of studies, as have the fact that Babies in the womb have been observed trying to avoid Abortionistist's needles (on sonagrams) from as early as 16 weeks. In these cases, we can say that the fetuses definitely "felt" something and were trying to avoid it!

On what were these "Researchers" basing their findings? Where was it published? How was "Pain" defined? How was it determined whether or not the pre-born baby had felt the "pain"? Did they actually do experiments? or, Was this based on THEIR UNDERSTANDING of Pre-natal Physiological and Neurological Devoloment? Since they couldn't have done actual experiments (testing pain reflex or psin reaction), we have to assume that these "researchers got someone to publish THEIR UNDERSTANDING of Pre-Natal Physiological and Neurological Development...

Why do you think that the Pro-Abortion side is so desparate that they would publish something that would be an obvious crock?Do you think that even the people publishing and repeating this study just might know in their hard hearts that Abortion is Murder?!

In which case, it doesn't matter whether the Baby experiences pain or not, because what they are doing is murder, and there is NO humane way to slaughter one's fellow human beings!

Pray that their brains admit what their heart already knows and that they repent and stop the slaughtering of Innocent Babies.

Blessed are they who act to save God's Little Ones, Michael

[CarolAnnSFO]

Since when is "ability to feel pain" a standard by which people are judged unworthy of life? People with CIPA syndrome can't feel pain; are they less entitled to live?


Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

[Traditional Ang]

Originally Posted by WanderAimlessly

First the buckle under to terrorists (See: Talk-show host fired for linking Islam, terror ) now this.

More reasons to boycott ABC and their parent company Disney.

PF

WanderAimlessly:

It turns out the decision was made at the local level, but there was pressure from Corporate officials who were afraid of bad publicity and of a "Civil Rights" Law Suit.

Regarding buckling under to terrorists... I was involved in a knock-down-drag-out with the same group when they targetted a ME forum because it was "too Pro-Israeli".

I got Conservative Talk Show hosts and someone else got a lawyer involved. This finally caused them to back cown when it became obvious that we would raise at least as much of a stink as they would.

That's all I can say about that situation...

Please make sure you know what you're doing before you initiate a boycott, any boycott....

One thing we can and should do is get the information on the Corporate and local people who made this choice, and let them know that we'll make up in "Preferential purchases" any costs that might come from a CAIR led boycott. This, of course, would be continguent in the rehiring of the Talk-show host in question and the return to the former schedule...

Post their info here so that we can write them. Post any letters we write and post their responses. We can always talk about making a stink based on their responses to our letters...

Please remember, Disney is one of the few corporations providing "Family Friendly" entertainment - So we want to encourage, not discourage, them.

The boycott should be the weapon of last resort, and it should be used when we know that there's real support for it. That way, it'll have a chance to work and to change the minds of the corporation we're dealing with.

Blessed are they who act to stop the slaughter of the Innocent, Michael

[allhers]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

Did anyone else see the news story this evening regarding a research study done indicating that embryo's allegedly do not feel pain until 28 weeks?



Which the media was saying was a a blow to the "anti-abortion" movement.

They miss the point... Regardless of if a person feels pain, it is still wrong to end a life.

It was followed by a story about the DaVincci Code.

they need to look at site's like this first would be my suggestion
http://www.priestsforlife.org/column...unbornpain.htm

After you read it, you can see that even some of the Doctors say these preborn babies feel pain, some say as early as 10 weeks to 20 weeks. And I agree that even IF they didn't feel pain, which, hey, even common sense ought to tell you that they do, it still wouldnt make it alright to end their life.
The following is taken from that article.....
....The Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act has now been introduced in Congress, to inform women having abortions at 20 weeks or more that their baby may feel pain. The legislation deserves our support. It would require that the mother be given the option to provide painkillers to her baby. This is not to justify abortion, but will certainly make many think twice about it.

[JMJ_Pinoy]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

Did anyone else see the news story this evening regarding a research study done indicating that embryo's allegedly do not feel pain until 28 weeks?



Which the media was saying was a a blow to the "anti-abortion" movement.

They miss the point... Regardless of if a person feels pain, it is still wrong to end a life.

It was followed by a story about the DaVincci Code.

The issue is not whether the human embryo can feel pain, but rather, whether the embryo is a human being - that is, a human organism. Since this is scientifically undisputed, the "no pain" argument is fallacious.

[Lisa4Catholics]

Originally Posted by allhers

they need to look at site's like this first would be my suggestion
www.priestsforlife.org/columns/columns2005/05-08-15unbornpain.htm

After you read it, you can see that even some of the Doctors say these preborn babies feel pain, some say as early as 10 weeks to 20 weeks. And I agree that even IF they didn't feel pain, which, hey, even common sense ought to tell you that they do, it still wouldnt make it alright to end their life.
The following is taken from that article.....
....The Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act has now been introduced in Congress, to inform women having abortions at 20 weeks or more that their baby may feel pain. The legislation deserves our support. It would require that the mother be given the option to provide painkillers to her baby. This is not to justify abortion, but will certainly make many think twice about it.

Years ago in the New England Journal of Medicine they said that very early in pregnancy they detected the pain hormone when the baby was being aborted The whole thing is irrelevant anyway,would that make a serial killer right in killing someone and rippingthem apart as long as the person didn't feel it?

[Traditional Ang]

Originally Posted by Lisa4Catholics

Years ago in the New England Journal of Medicine they said that very early in pregnancy they detected the pain hormone when the baby was being aborted The whole thing is irrelevant anyway,would that make a serial killer right in killing someone and rippingthem apart as long as the person didn't feel it?

Lisa:

As I said, the Pro-Abortion people KNOW in their hard hearts that Abortion is the killing of a human being. This "study" is one more attempt to assuage the guilt and to make themselves feel better.

The whole thing is, if they can get those of us who care about this side issue, maybe they can end up justifying Abortion to themselves and to the public at large ONE MORE TIME...

The problem is, they have to wake up and look at themselves in the mirror in the morning, and the face that looks back says, GUILTY!"

Then, They leave the "safety" of their homes and see the "Walking Torahs" most people call Jews who without saying a word, say, "GUILTY!" (Why do you think so many people on the Pro-Aboprtion side are anti-Semities and Anti-Israel?)

That's why the Church needs to be a clear, united witness. Because if the Church reminded people not only that Abortion was and is murder, but that there is forgiveness for all those who repent and turn away from the evil, many more of these Abortionists would repent and would run weeping to the Church.

That's what we've lost by the Bishops in this country not speaking with ONE VOICE with the Pope on this issue. That's the tragedy of a Church that accommodated, rather than confronted, the evils of Abortion and Licentiousness in this country.

Lisa, please remind the protestors you work with to pray that the owner of the clinic you're protesting in front of, and her husband, would be liberated from their demonic controller. They may already be under tremendous spiritual conviction - That may be one reason she has such a violent temper.

Blessed are they who defend the most powerless of all, Michael

[Lisa4Catholics]

Originally Posted by Traditional Ang

Lisa:

As I said, the Pro-Abortion people KNOW in their hard hearts that Abortion is the killing of a human being. This "study" is one more attempt to assuage the guilt and to make themselves feel better.

The whole thing is, if they can get those of us who care about this side issue, maybe they can end up justifying Abortion to themselves and to the public at large ONE MORE TIME...

The problem is, they have to wake up and look at themselves in the mirror in the morning, and the face that looks back says, GUILTY!"

Then, They leave the "safety" of their homes and see the "Walking Torahs" most people call Jews who without saying a word, say, "GUILTY!" (Why do you think so many people on the Pro-Aboprtion side are anti-Semities and Anti-Israel?)

That's why the Church needs to be a clear, united witness. Because if the Church reminded people not only that Abortion was and is murder, but that there is forgiveness for all those who repent and turn away from the evil, many more of these Abortionists would repent and would run weeping to the Church.

That's what we've lost by the Bishops in this country not speaking with ONE VOICE with the Pope on this issue. That's the tragedy of a Church that accommodated, rather than confronted, the evils of Abortion and Licentiousness in this country.

Lisa, please remind the protestors you work with to pray that the owner of the clinic you're protesting in front of, and her husband, would be liberated from their demonic controller. They may already be under tremendous spiritual conviction - That may be one reason she has such a violent temper.

Blessed are they who defend the most powerless of all, Michael

We always pray for them Michael Can you imagine what a witness for the Lord they would be?

[Rosalinda]

For the benefit of those who cannot read Priests for Life because all pro-life websites have been blocked here is some of the article found at the above provided link so that they may read it for themselves..

"It is therefore declared to be the policy of the United States that the slaughtering of livestock and the handling of livestock in connection with slaughter shall be carried out only by humane methods."

Those words come from the "Humane Methods of Slaughter Act," a law that expresses our concern for the pain experienced by animals, but that more fundamentally expresses a dimension of our own humanity. In Australia, the national Health and Medical Research Council requires painkillers to be used on the fetuses of animals!

So what about human fetuses?

On April 6, 2004, the following testimony was given in U.S. District Court (District of Nebraska) by Dr. Kanwaljeet Anand before Judge Richard G. Kopf in the case of Leroy Carhart, M.D., et. al. v. Ashcroft

"Q. So, Doctor, do you have an opinion as to whether the partial-birth abortion procedure causes pain to the fetus?

A. If the fetus is beyond 20 weeks of gestation, I would assume that there will be pain caused to the fetus. And I believe it will be severe and excruciating pain caused to the fetus.

Q. What do you mean by severe and excruciating pain?

A. You see, the threshold for pain is very low. The fetus is very likely extremely sensitive to pain during the gestation of 20 to 30 weeks. And so the procedures associated with the partial-birth abortion that I just described would be likely to cause severe pain, right from the time the fetus is being manipulated and being handled to the time that the incision is made, and the brain or the contents, intracranial contents, are sucked out."

In 1994, an article in the prestigious British medical journal, the Lancet, revealed hormonal stress reactions in the fetus. The article concluded with the recommendation that painkillers be used when surgery is done on the fetus. The authors wrote, "This applies not just to diagnostic and therapeutic procedures on the fetus, but possibly also to termination of pregnancy, especially by surgical techniques involving dismemberment." In 1991, scientific advisors to the Federal Medical Council in Germany had made a similar recommendation.

In August 2001, Great Britain's Medical Research Council concluded that pain perception may be as early as 20 weeks; other studies place it as early as 10 weeks...

[allhers]

Here is another good site
www.lifenews.com/nat1558.html
in part it says:
Berkeley, CA (LifeNews.com) -- A new report from researchers at the University of California says unborn children do not likely feel the pain of abortions during the earlier parts of a woman's pregnancy. The findings are coming under fire from doctors who specialize in fetal development and they say it's off the mark.
The UC report, which appears in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association, says unborn children likely do not feel any pain, including that of an abortion, until 28 weeks into pregnancy.

The report, intended to undercut support for Congressional and state-level legislation requiring abortion doctors to inform women considering an abortion of the pain babies will feel, says offering women anesthesia for the baby is misguided.

Allowing women considering an abortion to have the unborn child anesthetized beforehand is another component of the bill.

However, Dr. Kanwaljeet Anand of the University of Arkansas Medical Center says the report is biased. He said he and other specialists in development of unborn children have shown that babies feel pain before birth as early as 20 weeks into the pregnancy.

Anand said other medical studies conclude that unborn babies are "very likely" to be "extremely sensitive to pain during the gestation of 20 to 30 weeks."

"This is based on multiple lines of evidence," Dr. Anand said. "Not just the lack of descending inhibitory fibers, but also the number of receptors in the skin, the level of expression of various chemicals, neurotransmitters, receptors, and things like that."

Anand explained that later-term abortion procedures, such as a partial-birth abortion "would be likely to cause severe pain."

It also says that a Zogby poll showed that 77% of Americans back laws requiring a woman 20 wks. or more along in their pregnancy be given information about fetal pain before having an abortion.

Now, who is it that doesn't want this information to get out??

[allhers]

Originally Posted by Lisa4Catholics

Years ago in the New England Journal of Medicine they said that very early in pregnancy they detected the pain hormone when the baby was being aborted The whole thing is irrelevant anyway,would that make a serial killer right in killing someone and rippingthem apart as long as the person didn't feel it?

Someone needs to do a study on what happens to people's mind's after years of denying the truth too. God bless you Lisa!! I know that your prayers and those of us who pray for this to end will eventually break through to those who are too blind to see. You can be sure that the "Doctor's" who are performing these abortions know that they are indeed BABIES, tiny humans who feel pain!

[Pumpkin]

After spending the whole day in a world dominated by secularism and backward-disordered thinking. Reading on this forum gives me hope in humanity.

So many people and governing bodies are so backwards and watching/reading the news or reading is depressing. It is good to come back to this community each night; even if I do not have time to post to see the faith witnessed.
As soon as I heard this on the news, I wanted to talk about it here. I brought it up at work and working in health care, the talk revolved around the strength and validity of the research, but once again as you and I have all written and said repeatedly...pain is not the issue but killing a life is.
Let us pray~and pray~