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  #1  
Old Sep 15, '12, 3:34 pm
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TEPO TEPO is offline
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Default Is sin a genetic flaw?

Its been scientifically stated that some sins such as alcohol and drug addictions are genetically passed down from generation to generation... Also, the Original Sin is said to be passed down from Adam and Eve to all people. Homosexuality is now stated to be "genetic"... So can we all then agree that some people are more prone to sin than others, and that some people have a heavier cross to bear than others?

If so, then this means that I must pay for my grandfathers faults. Is it also a Catholic teaching that my mistakes can affect my children's morality..? Has it then also been scientifically proven that man can altar his genes through his choices..? If so, then we can throw Darwin's theory of natural selection out the window.
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Old Sep 15, '12, 3:48 pm
snarflemike snarflemike is online now
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

It can't be, because angels (some) sin.
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  #3  
Old Sep 15, '12, 4:09 pm
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

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Originally Posted by snarflemike View Post
It can't be, because angels (some) sin.
But Angels have never experienced Original Sin, because they were never human... When an angel falls from grace, it has nothing to do with concupiscence -it's purely their own creation... Unlike us, who are prone to sin "genetically".

But being both spiritual and physical beings here on earth, we are responsible for both aspects... Our spirits and our flesh actually seem to have a very unique relationship -especially considering that upon the final judgement we must first reunite with our flesh.
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Old Sep 15, '12, 4:09 pm
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

I'd say a spiritual flaw. You won't find a "sin" gene on the human genome.
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  #5  
Old Sep 15, '12, 4:11 pm
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPO View Post
But Angels have never experienced Original Sin, because they were never human... When an angel falls from grace, it has nothing to do with concupiscence -it's purely their own creation... Unlike us, who are prone to sin.

Therefore it's not a "genetic" flaw for them, rather it's their creation. For us, it's purely genetic -in other words we didn't create it, we're just burdened with it.

But being both spiritual and physical beings here on earth, we are responsible for both aspects... Our spirits and our flesh actually seem to have a very unique relationship -especially considering that upon the final judgement we must first reunite with our flesh.
I'd never heard this before. How is it that the Church allows cremation then (I know we can't scatter ashes, but we are still burning the body)?
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  #6  
Old Sep 15, '12, 4:11 pm
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPO View Post
Its been scientifically stated that some sins such as alcohol and drug addictions are genetically passed down from generation to generation... Also, the Original Sin is said to be passed down from Adam and Eve to all people. Homosexuality is now stated to be "genetic"... So can we all then agree that some people are more prone to sin than others, and that some people have a heavier cross to bear than others?

If so, then this means that I must pay for my grandfathers faults. Is it also a Catholic teaching that my mistakes can affect my children's morality..? Has it then also been scientifically proven that man can altar his genes through his choices..? If so, then we can throw Darwin's theory of natural selection out the window.


First, the Church tells us that original sin has nothing to do with genetics.

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: "When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own" (Humani Generis 37)."


Please provide a scientific reference that conclusively shows that alcohol and drug addictions are tried to genetics.

It has not been proven that homosexuality has a genetic component. If you have a credible scientific source that states it is, could you provide a link?

Making choices cannot alter your genetics in any way. However, if a woman is pregnant, using illegal drugs can affect her health and the health of her baby in the womb.

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pre...egaldrugs.html



Peace,
Ed
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  #7  
Old Sep 15, '12, 4:15 pm
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

I will say that certain sins can sort of be scientifically measured.

Inability to feel full=gluttony

Murderers show dark patches in their brains scans in the areas shown to affect empathy.

Higher libido can be measured=might make one more prone to sexual sins.
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  #8  
Old Sep 15, '12, 4:16 pm
davidv davidv is offline
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPO View Post
But Angels have never experienced Original Sin, because they were never human... When an angel falls from grace, it has nothing to do with concupiscence -it's purely their own creation... Unlike us, who are prone to sin.

Therefore it's not a "genetic" flaw for them, rather it's their creation. For us, it's purely genetic -in other words we didn't create it, we're just burdened with it.

But being both spiritual and physical beings here on earth, we are responsible for both aspects... Our spirits and our flesh actually seem to have a very unique relationship -especially considering that upon the final judgement we must first reunite with our flesh.
The CCC has an answer to this question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCC
404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".293 By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.
405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called "concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.
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  #9  
Old Sep 15, '12, 4:22 pm
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsOfEagles View Post
I'd never heard this before. How is it that the Church allows cremation then (I know we can't scatter ashes, but we are still burning the body)?
I learned it from studying the Church's position on relics. Relics are believed to hold some kind of essence of purity since body and soul hold a special type of bond w/ each other.

Likewise, think of the father and the son.
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  #10  
Old Sep 15, '12, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2 View Post
First, the Church tells us that original sin has nothing to do with genetics.

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: "When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own" (Humani Generis 37)."


Please provide a scientific reference that conclusively shows that alcohol and drug addictions are tried to genetics.

It has not been proven that homosexuality has a genetic component. If you have a credible scientific source that states it is, could you provide a link?

Making choices cannot alter your genetics in any way. However, if a woman is pregnant, using illegal drugs can affect her health and the health of her baby in the womb.

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pre...egaldrugs.html



Peace,
Ed
From the Popes letter, what I'm getting from It is only that Adam and Eve were the first parents in the flesh and that this is a required belief... In fact the last line seems to support my theory when he says "Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own."

"Through generation" seems alot like genetics... I'll check up on the links in a bit.
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  #11  
Old Sep 15, '12, 4:52 pm
JDaniel JDaniel is offline
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsOfEagles View Post
I'd never heard this before. How is it that the Church allows cremation then (I know we can't scatter ashes, but we are still burning the body)?
WoE:

Matter is a configuration of point particles and discrete space, in my opinion. Cremation is a reconfiguration of point particles and discrete space. The restoration of our bodies and our spirits is another reconfiguration of s-points and space because the original is eternally present in God's Mind. But, yes, the Church says that at some point after the end of the world, we will all be restored with our bodies since our bodies complete our "souls."

God bless,
jd
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Old Sep 15, '12, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDaniel View Post
WoE:

Matter is a configuration of point particles and discrete space, in my opinion. Cremation is a reconfiguration of point particles and discrete space. The restoration of our bodies and our spirits is another reconfiguration of s-points and space because the original is eternally present in God's Mind. But, yes, the Church says that at some point after the end of the world, we will all be restored with our bodies since our bodies complete our "souls."

God bless,
jd
At which time we can assume Original Sin and concupiscence will cease to exist here..? I think so. I think evil will then be confined and imprisoned in hell for eternity, with no chance of parole...

Genes will then be returned here to a perfect state, like they were before the fall. No more pain, sorrow, or death. God will be present here with us just like He was in the garden.

That's how I see it anyways
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  #13  
Old Sep 15, '12, 5:06 pm
JDaniel JDaniel is offline
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPO View Post
At which time we can assume Original Sin and concupiscence will cease to exist here..? I think so. I think evil will then be confined and imprisoned in hell for eternity, with no chance of parole...
TEPO:

To me 'evil' is nothing more than men's intentions. So, I'm not sure how they will be round up and relegated to hell. I do think they will be obliterated. I like your allegory though!

God bless,
jd
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  #14  
Old Sep 15, '12, 5:12 pm
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

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Originally Posted by JDaniel View Post
TEPO:

To me 'evil' is nothing more than men's intentions. So, I'm not sure how they will be round up and relegated to hell. I do think they will be obliterated. I like your allegory though!

God bless,
jd
Actually, I think it's a Church teaching that sin must not exist in Gods presence (which is why we can't talk to Him directly here like Adam and Eve did). This is why purgatory exists -to rehabilitate souls in order to "fix" them in preparation for heaven... Souls of the Saints however do not require it since they are already in Gods friendship.
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  #15  
Old Sep 15, '12, 5:19 pm
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Default Re: Is sin a genetic flaw?

With that said, purgatory makes logical sence... We need time seperated from our corrupted flesh, in order to see things as they really are -through the paradigm of our uncorrupted souls. In that light, a True learning process can take place.

For the Saints, Truth is clarified to its furthest extent.
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