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  #1  
Old Oct 2, '12, 6:42 pm
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BListon BListon is offline
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Question Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

In American Anglicanism/ Episcopalianism... what is the difference between a "rite 1 eucharist" and a "rite 2 eucharist".
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  #2  
Old Oct 2, '12, 7:01 pm
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by BListon View Post
In American Anglicanism/ Episcopalianism... what is the difference between a "rite 1 eucharist" and a "rite 2 eucharist".

Language, mainly. It is intended to be the same Rite.


The 1979 book Rite I is similar in tone to the 1928 BCP, which has no other Rite. Rite II in the 79 book is contemporary English.

Rite I also makes a few changes to wording, moves some things around , but generally doesn't ring oddly on the ear of anyone accustomed to the 1928 BCP, especially if they aren't paying attention.

The two Rites, and the 79 book, may be found here, by looking carefully:

http://justus.anglican.org/resources...atted_1979.htm

GKC
  #3  
Old Oct 2, '12, 9:15 pm
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ChurchSoldier ChurchSoldier is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

The Rite 1 was basically a bone to the Traditionalists.

The 1979 changed the theology in important ways. Here is one prayer called the Prayer of Humble Access. The bold area was removed from Rite 1 and the Prayer itself from Rite 2.

WE do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his Body, and our souls washed through his most precious Blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.

It took away the need to be washed by Christ's Blood and the concept that our bodies could be used in a sinful manner (sexual revolution and first years of abortion....).

Just curious, what prompted your question?
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  #4  
Old Oct 2, '12, 10:16 pm
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

I AM an ex-episcopalian who left before all the "anglican" schisms. When orthodox meant agrreing with the ressurection, theVirgin birth, and the literal interpretations of the creeds.

If you read the living Church you will understand.

I always liked rite I more than 1929. With 1929 you get the ten commandments at the start, and the Gloria at the end.

Rite I is just more catholic to me.
  #5  
Old Oct 2, '12, 11:03 pm
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

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Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
I AM an ex-episcopalian who left before all the "anglican" schisms. When orthodox meant agrreing with the ressurection, theVirgin birth, and the literal interpretations of the creeds.

If you read the living Church you will understand.

I always liked rite I more than 1929. With 1929 you get the ten commandments at the start, and the Gloria at the end.

Rite I is just more catholic to me.

That's 1928. And that happens unless your rector moves the Gloria around. As ours always does.

GKC
  #6  
Old Oct 2, '12, 11:07 pm
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChurchSoldier View Post
The Rite 1 was basically a bone to the Traditionalists.

The 1979 changed the theology in important ways. Here is one prayer called the Prayer of Humble Access. The bold area was removed from Rite 1 and the Prayer itself from Rite 2.

WE do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his Body, and our souls washed through his most precious Blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.

It took away the need to be washed by Christ's Blood and the concept that our bodies could be used in a sinful manner (sexual revolution and first years of abortion....).

Just curious, what prompted your question?

As I said, some folks don't pay attention to the changes. Some folks don't care.

GKC
  #7  
Old Oct 3, '12, 12:50 am
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Izdaari Izdaari is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

I'm one of those who doesn't especially care. Either way is fine by me.
  #8  
Old Oct 3, '12, 5:16 am
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BListon BListon is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChurchSoldier View Post
The Rite 1 was basically a bone to the Traditionalists.

The 1979 changed the theology in important ways. Here is one prayer called the Prayer of Humble Access. The bold area was removed from Rite 1 and the Prayer itself from Rite 2.

WE do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his Body, and our souls washed through his most precious Blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.

It took away the need to be washed by Christ's Blood and the concept that our bodies could be used in a sinful manner (sexual revolution and first years of abortion....).

Just curious, what prompted your question?
There is a local Episcopal Church across from my Catholic Church, and the sign at the front mentions the times for "rite 1 and rite 2 eucharists". I pass by it all the time, so I was just curious
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Mother of Christ, Star of the Sea, pray for the wanderer, pray for me.

"Christ be with me, Christ within me, Christ behind me, Christ before me, Christ beside me, Christ to win me, Christ to comfort and restore me"~ St. Patrick
  #9  
Old Oct 3, '12, 9:03 am
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ChurchSoldier ChurchSoldier is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

In that case, King James vs modern language.
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  #10  
Old Oct 3, '12, 9:42 am
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC View Post
That's 1928. And that happens unless your rector moves the Gloria around. As ours always does.

GKC
That's cheating for the true 1928 mass you have to have the whole thing as written starting with the commandments and including the long exhortations each time.

I always get the english 1929 confused with the 1928 american books.
  #11  
Old Oct 3, '12, 9:49 am
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by BListon View Post
There is a local Episcopal Church across from my Catholic Church, and the sign at the front mentions the times for "rite 1 and rite 2 eucharists". I pass by it all the time, so I was just curious
And I bet that riteI which is more like the TLM is at the crack of dawn.

Rite II is more like NovusOrdo, with its more contemporary english, they have not changed since the mid 70s and still say "and also with you". But the book was ratified and made official in 1982.
  #12  
Old Oct 3, '12, 10:33 am
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
That's cheating for the true 1928 mass you have to have the whole thing as written starting with the commandments and including the long exhortations each time.

I always get the english 1929 confused with the 1928 american books.
No, you don't.

GKC
  #13  
Old Oct 3, '12, 11:55 am
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC View Post
No, you don't.

GKC
Now I really confused, (not a nice thing to do to a man that had a stroke).

Which year was the English book, and which year was the American book?
  #14  
Old Oct 3, '12, 12:41 pm
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

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Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
Now I really confused, (not a nice thing to do to a man that had a stroke).

Which year was the English book, and which year was the American book?
am very sorry, re: the stroke. Both my parents were hit by one, massively.

My comment was referring to the Gloria., not to you being confused on the question of 1929/1928.

There was a proposed English book, in 1928, not adopted. There were a few other proposals, in the centuries prior, and a a couple of bits and pieces of things approved by Convocation, but until the 1980 Book of Alternate Services, the real thing/last word was the 1662 Book.

The US 1928 Book was, 1928, yep. But unless one is doing a strict, by definition, Prayer Book Mass, the liturgy in the 1928 Book is often modified, added too, supplemented, as from the Missal. In fact, in a 1928 Mass, the Gloria need not be said at all

Good luck, and hang in there.

GKC

Last edited by GKC; Oct 3, '12 at 12:55 pm.
  #15  
Old Oct 3, '12, 4:14 pm
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BListon BListon is offline
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Default Re: Episcopal: Rite 1 vs. Rite 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
And I bet that riteI which is more like the TLM is at the crack of dawn.

Rite II is more like NovusOrdo, with its more contemporary english, they have not changed since the mid 70s and still say "and also with you". But the book was ratified and made official in 1982.
Yep... rite 1 comes first, then rite 2 later.
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Mother of Christ, Star of the Sea, pray for the wanderer, pray for me.

"Christ be with me, Christ within me, Christ behind me, Christ before me, Christ beside me, Christ to win me, Christ to comfort and restore me"~ St. Patrick
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