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  #1  
Old Aug 29, '05, 3:39 pm
Nelson89 Nelson89 is offline
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Default Porn & Masturbation

My friend had come to me today, he is also a catholic. He knows that I am a big religion guy, and hoping to study to become a priest after high school and college. He had a interesting question for me.

He asked me wether mastrubation is a mortal or venial sin. As well as what he should do to control his "sexual craves" as he put it. He knows that he is too young to have sex and plans on not having sex til marriage, but asked me, because he says that he has these craves, and he figures the only way that he can release them is through masturbation.

Any help would be appericated, if not thanks anywyas.
  #2  
Old Aug 29, '05, 4:10 pm
Timidity Timidity is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

The Catholic Church puts its teachings in a wonderful book call "Catechism of the Catholic Church." You can even read it online at http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/

Reading it one will discover that both masturbation (paragraph 2352) and pornography (paragraph 2354) are grave matter, which is one of the three conditions for mortal sin.

Another condition is knowledge. Seeing that he didn't know, it seems that the sin wasn't mortal. However, now that you know, if you don't tell him (seeing that he asked you) you will be culpable for his sin instead of him!
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  #3  
Old Aug 30, '05, 7:59 am
Bandtech Bandtech is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timidity
However, now that you know, if you don't tell him (seeing that he asked you) you will be culpable for his sin instead of him!
I'd be very interested to see how you support this doctrine.

Garry
  #4  
Old Aug 30, '05, 8:56 am
Timidity Timidity is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandtech
I'd be very interested to see how you support this doctrine.
Way back before I was born, it seems that everyone owned either a Catholic prayer book or a missal (or both). As people die and I end up with these things, I notice almost all of them have a section of lists. Lists like "the ten commandments", "the seven spiritual works of mercy", and "The four sins crying out to Heaven for vengence". One of these lists is "The nine ways of being accessory to another's sin".

The nine ways are:
  1. By counsel
  2. By command
  3. By consent
  4. By provocation
  5. By praise or flattery
  6. By concealment
  7. By partaking
  8. By silence
  9. By defense of the ill done.
So, under that old line of thought, when someone asks for you counsel on something you know to be sinful, you become an accessory to their sin if you knowing give them bad cousel.

But, as the song goes, that was then, and this is now.

Now, we find the Church's teaching on the subject in paragraph 1868 of the Catechism:
Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

  • by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
  • by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
  • by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
  • by protecting evil-doers.
Therefore, for the original poster to say "looking at that stuff and playing with yourself is okay" would be either advising or approval, and either way (assuming that he was knowingly giving false information) he has a resposibility for that sin.

I hope that helps!
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  #5  
Old Aug 30, '05, 9:01 am
Topher Topher is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

The catechism also states a person's culpability for masturbation may be reduced based on several factors including developmental stage, and force of habbit. If someone's will is seriously impaired in the situation, then the sin cannot be mortal because one of the requirement for a sin to mortal is that a persons will must be intact. A person struggling with this sin should discuss it with his or her confessor to find ways of overcoming it and to figure out if it is a mortal sin in their case. If it is NOT a mortal sin in a particular person's case, that person should be going to communion even if they commit the sin of masturbation because they need the sacramental grace of communion to overcome it.
  #6  
Old Aug 30, '05, 9:02 am
Genesis315 Genesis315 is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson89
He knows that he is too young to have sex and plans on not having sex til marriage, but asked me, because he says that he has these craves, and he figures the only way that he can release them is through masturbation.
Nah, they go away after a few minutes. You just have to know how to distract yourself.

I had friend in college who would do 50 pushups every time he felt the "urge." He got pretty built in the process.

For me, if I ever feel bothered I usually call on Our Lady and St. Michael. Tell him to pray the Rosary every day. I am also a fan of the St. Michael Chaplet ( http://www.ewtn.com/library/PRAYER/MIKECHAP.TXT )

Here is another good prayer (by St. Thomas Aquinas; people were so jealous of his chastity that they locked him in a tower with a woman if ill-repute (if you catch my drift) in order to try and make him give in. He never did.)

Dearest Jesus! I know well that every perfect gift, and above all others that of chastity, depends upon the most powerful assistance of Thy Providence, and that without Thee a creature can do nothing. Therefore, I pray Thee to defend, with Thy grace, chastity and purity in my soul as well as in my body. And if I have ever received through my senses any impression that could stain my chastity and purity, do Thou, Who art the Supreme Lord of all my powers, take it from me, that I may with an immaculate heart advance in Thy love and service, offering myself chaste all the days of my life on the most pure altar of Thy Divinity.
Amen.
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  #7  
Old Aug 30, '05, 9:41 am
mercygate mercygate is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topher
The catechism also states a person's culpability for masturbation may be reduced based on several factors including developmental stage, and force of habbit. If someone's will is seriously impaired in the situation, then the sin cannot be mortal because one of the requirement for a sin to mortal is that a persons will must be intact. A person struggling with this sin should discuss it with his or her confessor to find ways of overcoming it and to figure out if it is a mortal sin in their case. If it is NOT a mortal sin in a particular person's case, that person should be going to communion even if they commit the sin of masturbation because they need the sacramental grace of communion to overcome it.
What you say may be technically correct but this rationale could lead to a cavalier attitude about both the problem and the Sacrament. Once a person KNOWS this is "grave matter" that should be enough to send him to confession for the graces of THAT sacrament before appearing at the Lord's table. It is much too easy to diagnose oneself as "off the hook" on the mortal sin scale because of one's age or the force of habit.

I say, fight this early in life, fight it forthrightly, and keep up the good fight, even if it takes 50 years. Master your passions or they will master you.
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  #8  
Old Aug 30, '05, 11:35 am
Topher Topher is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercygate
What you say may be technically correct but this rationale could lead to a cavalier attitude about both the problem and the Sacrament. Once a person KNOWS this is "grave matter" that should be enough to send him to confession for the graces of THAT sacrament before appearing at the Lord's table. It is much too easy to diagnose oneself as "off the hook" on the mortal sin scale because of one's age or the force of habit.

I say, fight this early in life, fight it forthrightly, and keep up the good fight, even if it takes 50 years. Master your passions or they will master you.
Not necessarily. If he has a good and orthodox confessor who determines along with him that the issue is not mortal because his will is seriously impared, then he should be going to communion to recieve the grace of the sacrament in order to battle the sin. If a person is not in mortal sin they should recieve Holy Commuinon. And I agree. One should fight the good fight as soon as possible.
  #9  
Old Aug 30, '05, 1:12 pm
CuriousInIL CuriousInIL is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timidity
Now, we find the Church's teaching on the subject in paragraph 1868 of the Catechism:

Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

  • by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
  • by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
  • by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
  • by protecting evil-doers.
Therefore, for the original poster to say "looking at that stuff and playing with yourself is okay" would be either advising or approval, and either way (assuming that he was knowingly giving false information) he has a resposibility for that sin.
Just a quick point, nothing in the original post indicates that the original poster has any obligation to disclose to or hinder his friend.
  #10  
Old Aug 30, '05, 2:34 pm
Marc18 Marc18 is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Well i have the same craves too and i find it difficult to deal with it. The best way i think is when Jesus suffered in the Devil tempting him. When i get these craves i think of the Devil tempting me. As a non virgin and a sinner i should not be really giving this advice. If you find the help please messege me.

God Bless
  #11  
Old Aug 30, '05, 8:36 pm
Pentecost2005 Pentecost2005 is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson89
He knows that he is too young to have sex and plans on not having sex til marriage, but asked me, because he says that he has these craves, and he figures the only way that he can release them is through masturbation.
If he's engaging in masturbation, then he IS having sex. He's already chosen not to wait.
  #12  
Old Aug 30, '05, 8:37 pm
Topher Topher is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentecost2005
If he's engaging in masturbation, then he IS having sex. He's already chosen not to wait.
That's stupid!
  #13  
Old Aug 30, '05, 8:40 pm
Timidity Timidity is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousInIL
Just a quick point, nothing in the original post indicates that the original poster has any obligation to disclose to or hinder his friend.
You contend that when one askes you for moral advice that you can lie to them and tell them that something sinful is perfectly okay, and you would have moral consequence? The obligation came about when the question was asked.

Besides, you highlighted the wrong line. We're not talking about disclosing the sin to someone else, we're talking about advising in the line above.
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  #14  
Old Aug 30, '05, 8:43 pm
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mosher mosher is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentecost2005
If he's engaging in masturbation, then he IS having sex. He's already chosen not to wait.
This is the most idiotic post I have ever seen when it comes to gauging morality on any Catholic site that I have ever been on. Auto-erotic behavior while it is a disorder is nothing like the sexual act and could not in any way be compared to sexual activity in the proper sense. To equate masturbation to sexual activity is to disparage the meaning and value of sexuality and to reduce the marital act to nothing more than a roll in the sheets that has no meaning beyond ejaculatory functions. This also does not do anything to help the person that is dealing with this disorder. Not only does the person already feel bad about the disorder but now it is being rasied to a level that is not objectivelly tennable in the area of morality. This view needs to be discarded to the area of things best unsaid.
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  #15  
Old Aug 30, '05, 8:44 pm
Timidity Timidity is offline
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Default Re: Porn & Masturbation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topher
That's stupid!
The church teaches that masturbation is "the deliberate use of the sexual faculty...outside of marriage." It is liguisticly reasonable to conversationally abbreviate that as "having sex".
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