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  #1  
Old Oct 19, '12, 8:38 am
Dirt Dirt is offline
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Default Chicago laity wants to pick

Catholics in Chicago are weighing in on what type of Bishop should replace +Cardinal George:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...-states-19007/

Do y'all think this is a good thing? Or does this lend itself to a democratization of the Church?
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  #2  
Old Oct 19, '12, 8:43 am
Rence Rence is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

It can't be a bad thing because the Church allows it, and it won't lead to democrazation of the Chuch, unless the Pope allows it. The faithful can make their needs, concerns and hopes known, but it's up to the Church to make the final decision.

The article quotes the canon as saying this:

Canon law 212 - § 2 reads: “Christ's faithful are at liberty to make known their needs, especially their spiritual needs, and their wishes to the Pastors of the Church.”
And § 3 reads: They have the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church.”
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  #3  
Old Oct 19, '12, 9:05 am
JimG JimG is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

I'm doubtful that I would want the laity of Chicago picking bishops, although they are certainly entitled to voice their needs. The article mentions that "they fear that a pastor who is entirely oriented towards orthodoxy" will be chosen.

But of course, the first and primary job of any bishop is to preserve orthodoxy. He is a successor to the apostles. Handing down the faith intact and whole--preserving orthodoxy--is his job.
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Old Oct 19, '12, 9:45 am
Dirt Dirt is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

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Originally Posted by JimG View Post
I'm doubtful that I would want the laity of Chicago picking bishops, although they are certainly entitled to voice their needs. The article mentions that "they fear that a pastor who is entirely oriented towards orthodoxy" will be chosen.

But of course, the first and primary job of any bishop is to preserve orthodoxy. He is a successor to the apostles. Handing down the faith intact and whole--preserving orthodoxy--is his job.
Exactly Jim, and i feel that this Chicago effort is to preclude one such as San Francisco. They are afraid of a Bishop who will not rubber stamp the likes of Fr. Flagler, et al.
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  #5  
Old Oct 19, '12, 10:26 am
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Brendan Brendan is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

More specifically, they are certainly entitled and even encouraged, to discuss what they feel their needs are in a new bishop.

But that is decidedly different from being able to pick their next bishop, or do more than make their desires known.

After that, the final decision is reserved to the Holy See with the primary input coming from the USCCB and the Papal Nuncio.
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  #6  
Old Oct 19, '12, 10:40 am
jwinch2 jwinch2 is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

There was another thread about this a while back, or at least I think there was. I concur with what seems to be the consensus so far on this thread. They absolutely have a right to express their needs, and even their desires should they choose to. However, that is where it stops. They do not have the right to demand, elect, etc. The Church is not a democracy at the end of the day. She has a divine charge to give us what we need, not what we think we want. Just like our physical mothers often had to give us something we might not have wanted because it was what was best for us, our spiritual mother, the Church, must do the same.
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  #7  
Old Oct 19, '12, 10:41 am
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Crescentinus Crescentinus is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

If they are angry at how the new bishop would be orthodox, then he's doing a very good job.
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  #8  
Old Oct 19, '12, 10:44 am
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
Catholics in Chicago are weighing in on what type of Bishop should replace +Cardinal George:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...-states-19007/

Do y'all think this is a good thing? Or does this lend itself to a democratization of the Church?
Forget it. That's not how the Church works. You're trying to turn the Church into the American government, and trust me, one American government is more than enough for the world to have to stomach.

People are trying to substitute politics for religion. And they're going to be left empty-handed because politics is just politics. Winning an argument is not God.
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  #9  
Old Oct 19, '12, 10:46 am
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McDale721 McDale721 is online now
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

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Originally Posted by Crescentinus View Post
If they are angry at how the new bishop would be orthodox, then he's doing a very good job.
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  #10  
Old Oct 19, '12, 11:35 am
MarkThompson MarkThompson is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
Catholics in Chicago are weighing in on what type of Bishop should replace +Cardinal George:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...-states-19007/

Do y'all think this is a good thing? Or does this lend itself to a democratization of the Church?
You know, somebody once said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I surely don't feel quite that strongly in this case, but it would be nice if people could distinguish the what of the opinions at issue here (they are liberals!) from the mere fact of expressing themselves. Would it ever occur to you to respond to somebody in this way?:
A. I'm thinking of getting a group together and petitioning the bishop for a TLM.
B. That is contributing to "a democratization of the church"! Which is not "a good thing."
Of course, there are times when merely expressing an opinion is offensive and meddlesome. When members of non-Catholic churches start telling us how we should run the show, they deserve a reminder that it is None Of Their Business. But that is not the case here. And while I'm sure I disagree on substance with the people mentioned in this article -- I for one would be extremely happy to see, say, Bishop Perry promoted to fill his boss's job -- the solution is not to make it clear that ordinary Catholics are not welcome to voice their views.
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  #11  
Old Oct 19, '12, 12:11 pm
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescentinus View Post
If they are angry at how the new bishop would be orthodox, then he's doing a very good job.
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  #12  
Old Oct 19, '12, 12:17 pm
garysibio garysibio is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
Catholics in Chicago are weighing in on what type of Bishop should replace +Cardinal George:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...-states-19007/

Do y'all think this is a good thing? Or does this lend itself to a democratization of the Church?
Not sure where this is coming from. I live in Chicago and I haven't heard any of this. Those who think they are going to get to pick the next bishop are going to be - and should be - severely disappointed.
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  #13  
Old Oct 19, '12, 12:46 pm
Nimzovik Nimzovik is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescentinus View Post
If they are angry at how the new bishop would be orthodox, then he's doing a very good job.
Well said.
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  #14  
Old Oct 19, '12, 12:54 pm
garysibio garysibio is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescentinus View Post
If they are angry at how the new bishop would be orthodox, then he's doing a very good job.
To be honest he hasn't cracked down on the liberals as much as I had hoped when he took over. One example, he caved when dealing with Pfleger.
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  #15  
Old Oct 19, '12, 2:35 pm
Semper Zelare Semper Zelare is offline
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Default Re: Chicago laity wants to pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveangels View Post
Forget it. That's not how the Church works. You're trying to turn the Church into the American government, and trust me, one American government is more than enough for the world to have to stomach.

People are trying to substitute politics for religion. And they're going to be left empty-handed because politics is just politics. Winning an argument is not God.


The final authority rests with His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI.

And, I've read reports that have said that Pope Benedict has over-ruled even the suggestions of Papal Nuncios in many cases. IE: The Papal Nuncio will normally recommend three priests or religious who are considered to be the "top picks" to be a Bishop (or whatever station it is)... and Pope Benedict will somehow find a completely different candidate who he prefers.

I've heard that Pope Benedict is a micro-manager when it comes to appointing Bishops and so forth, and I think the fruits of his actions have been widely felt throughout the whole Church. He's restructuring the Church one Bishop and one Cardinal at a time.

Long Live Pope Benedict XVI!!! May the Lord continually grant him health and safety!!!
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