New Orleans mayor says attempt to plug breach has failed...

**gilliam** · #1 Aug 30, '05, 6:49 pm

Mayor Ray Nagin has announced that the attempt to plug a breach in the
17th Street canal at the Hammond Highway bridge has failed and the
rising water is about to overwhelm the pumps on that canal.
The result is that water will begin rising rapidly again, and could
reach as high as 3 feet above sea level. In New Orleans and Jefferson
Parish, that means floodwaters could rise as high as 15 feet in the next
few hours.
Nagin urged residents to try to find higher ground as soon as possible. http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakin...08.html#075236

TeriGator · #2 Aug 30, '05, 6:51 pm

God help them.

sherri · #3 Aug 30, '05, 6:52 pm

My heart is breaking. Everything gone. The looting is awful. I cannot begin to express my sorrow. There will be more dead. I can only be grateful to God that my family survived

Ghosty · #4 Aug 30, '05, 6:59 pm

Truly horrifying. A whole city under water, one of the most historic and recognizable, not to mention Catholic, cities in the U.S. So much loss.

As a side not, however, in the case of the city being filled with water, and everything on ground level being destroyed, when does "looting" become simple "scavenging"?

I'm not supporting looting, but this is a question that continues to plague my mind as things get worse. At a certain point are these folks just saving stuff that will be washed away otherwise? This of course refers to the ever-worsening New Orleans, and not those places that were damaged in the storm but are not currently under water.

**gilliam** · #5 Aug 30, '05, 7:07 pm

New Orleans Shelters To Be Evacuated

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana -- New Orleans resembled a war zone more than a modern American metropolis on Tuesday, as Gulf Coast communities struggled to deal with the devastating aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Deteriorating conditions in New Orleans will force authorities to evacuate the tens of thousands of people at city shelters, including the Superdome, where a policeman told CNN unrest was escalating.

The officer expressed concern that the situation could worsen overnight after three shootings, looting and a number of attempted carjackings during the afternoon. Officials could not yet provide accurate estimates for fatalities or time needed for recovery in the area and are focusing, instead, on widespread search-and-rescue operations.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...

aurora77 · #6 Aug 30, '05, 7:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghosty

As a side not, however, in the case of the city being filled with water, and everything on ground level being destroyed, when does "looting" become simple "scavenging"?

I'm not supporting looting, but this is a question that continues to plague my mind as things get worse. At a certain point are these folks just saving stuff that will be washed away otherwise? This of course refers to the ever-worsening New Orleans, and not those places that were damaged in the storm but are not currently under water.

I thought that today while watching video of the disaster. I'd like to think that I wouldn't loot, but if the options were to steal food for my family or go hungry, I'd take the food and get to confession later.

**gilliam** · #7 Aug 30, '05, 7:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghosty

As a side not, however, in the case of the city being filled with water, and everything on ground level being destroyed, when does "looting" become simple "scavenging"? .

I am not a lawyer, but morally it wouldn't be scavenging unless the items were considered in the public domain. Property under water is not necessarily considered in the public domain.

If you have to take food to keep your kids alive, and that food would parish anyway, I think morally, you would be justified in taking it. Especially, if you intend on paying the owner back later when you can. Taking jewelery or beer is another thing all together.

sherri · #8 Aug 30, '05, 7:10 pm

I would say that when people break the windows of clothing stores (Coleman's) to steal expensive clothes that would call that looting and not survival. Also as I New Orleans native I am afraid that NO business will want to rebuild or relocate in a city with a reputation for so much crime. The websites I have been reading (NOLA.com) are saying that the looters are laughing, smiling and greeting each other as they loot. And a police officer in my area of town was shot in the head by a looter. Now if your just trying to feed your family, Why in heavens name do you need to shoot a cop.I fear for my family if they try to return to their homes before law and order are restored. God bless those who are still in the city.

Thekla · #9 Aug 30, '05, 7:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghosty

Truly horrifying. A whole city under water, one of the most historic and recognizable, not to mention Catholic, cities in the U.S. So much loss.

As a side not, however, in the case of the city being filled with water, and everything on ground level being destroyed, when does "looting" become simple "scavenging"?

I'm not supporting looting, but this is a question that continues to plague my mind as things get worse. At a certain point are these folks just saving stuff that will be washed away otherwise?

If you listen to the Louisiana government officials, it's clear that they consider the looting to be nothing when compared to the fact that people are dying and the devastation continues. The truth hurts, but it always makes good TV in America to show black people stealing. But there are very few places in NO that are not under water, so most people are just trying to survive.

I could not care less, at this point, if a Walmart gets ransacked and when you look at the horror caused by a natural disaster, it's pathetic for any to focus on some guy taking a box of Pampers. Many of the poorest of New Orleans' citizens were left behind because they likely didn't have anywhere to go, didn't have the money, or didn't have the transportation.

Sure there are idiots taking TV sets, but that just shows how idiotic they are. The levee repair hasn't worked and they may get up to 15 feet more of water. What good is a TV? I'm worried about the other thousands of people suffering.

Ghosty · #10 Aug 30, '05, 7:20 pm

Yeah, I'm speaking more morally than according to the law, as private property is private property even under water.

If I were in N.O. today I wouldn't be taking T.V. sets and such (how ridiculous is that when there won't be power for a month, the city is flooded, and you can't leave except by boat or helicopter) but as I watched the water rise I'd sure be tempted to run into a local grocery store and grab some provisions at this point, possibly some clean clothes. Who knows when you'd be seeing those necessities again.

Again, I'm not advocating these actions, but I can definately see why someone might "loot" necessities in a time like this, if not stereos and microwaves. I certainly wouldn't be waiting a couple days until hungry to try and find food, I think I'd be planning ahead to a potentially long stretch of relative survivalism.

Just something I'm pondering as I watch a beautiful city sink underwater

**gilliam** · #11 Aug 30, '05, 7:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghosty

Just something I'm pondering as I watch a beautiful city sink underwater

I am very, very sorry.

threej_lc · #12 Aug 30, '05, 7:32 pm

Maybe I'm not the best Catholic anymore, but here's my opinion on the looting.

The entire city is about to be flooded. Everything is about to be destroyed. If you want to run into a store and get yourself some goods before they otherwise get destroyed, that's your perogative. You're not hurting anyone. Rather, you're preserving that which otherwise would be lost.

Josh

**gilliam** · #13 Aug 30, '05, 7:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by threej_lc

Maybe I'm not the best Catholic anymore, but here's my opinion on the looting.

The entire city is about to be flooded. Everything is about to be destroyed. If you want to run into a store and get yourself some goods before they otherwise get destroyed, that's your perogative. You're not hurting anyone. Rather, you're preserving that which otherwise would be lost.

Josh

It is not your call. Just like it is not your call to take your neighbor's car that is just rusting in the driveway anyway. The commandment is not "thou shat not steal unless you think it might go to waiste anyway."

Fitz · #14 Aug 30, '05, 7:38 pm

I can't imagine where the people would bring the stuff they looted, so it is sort of silly unless it is just things to eat or wear. I think maybe people are not acting themselves. I can't believe people would want to be caught on National and International news looting unless they were under some horrible stress like they are.

Thekla · #15 Aug 30, '05, 7:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz

I can't imagine where the people would bring the stuff they looted, so it is sort of silly unless it is just things to eat or wear. I think maybe people are not acting themselves. I can't believe people would want to be caught on National and International news looting unless they were under some horrible stress like they are.

I agree with you. From what I can hear, the situation in the hospitals and the Superdome is deteriorating. Where is the federal government in getting those people out of there? The state appears to be totally overwhelmed.