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  #1  
Old Nov 29, '12, 11:48 am
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dandingo dandingo is offline
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Default Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

I'm not sure if too many are familiar with Dr. Eben Alexander - the Neurosurgeon who was in a coma for a week and had an extremely vivid Near Death Experience.

Quick summary - prior to his NDE, he was a typical skeptic 'Christian' who didn't see any evidence that the brain could function after death, that is, until he experienced it for himself. The best part is that he was actually able to analyze his own tests and confirm that he had absolutely no brain function during his coma and that the Meningitis had wiped out the part of his brain that provides consciousness. Yet, what he experienced was what he described as 'more real and profound than this earthly realm'.

Anyway, he was on Dennis Prager yesterday and I was extremely captivated. He described starting out in a kind of earthly realm in a 'worms-eye view' in a bubbling, muddy, monotonous, dark underground. He stated that he felt like he was there for a very long time. Then, he was rescued by a spinning, brilliant white light. Once he reached the 'heavenly' realm, he could actually see time come to a stop in the earthly realm and was kind of in 'infinity'.

Later, Mr. Prager asks him what happens to people who do atrocious things here on earth. Dr. Alexander states that people that inflict pain here on earth will experience what their victims felt, but even more extreme.

This is where I believe Purgatory may have been experienced. I found it extremely interesting that he was almost, as I understood it, 'reborn' and seemed to be a place that doesn't seem very 'heavenly'. Dark, monotonous, muddy and he felt like he was there a long time. Couple this with his description that people experience the pain that they inflict on others and I can kind of see a purging of sins and being reborn.

Anyway, I wish I could link you to the talk, as I'm a member of Pragertopia and was able to listen to it again with my wife last night. She was in as much awe as I was. I felt so at peace when I went to bed last night.

So, did anyone else hear the talk and have any input? I wasn't sure if this was the correct place to put this so Mods feel free to move it as needed.
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  #2  
Old Nov 29, '12, 1:08 pm
GEddie GEddie is offline
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Default Re: Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

Quote:
Quick summary - prior to his NDE, he was a typical skeptic 'Christian' who didn't see any evidence that the brain could function after death
The brain clearly does not function after death; methinks you meant to say "mind."

I for one am very skeptical of NDE; it could too easily be the result of a last dream in the breath-deprived head.

However, if the part of his brain generating consciousness was really knocked out, this would make his experience more credible, as no dreams could register or be remembered.

ICXC NIKA
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  #3  
Old Nov 29, '12, 1:29 pm
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JerryZ JerryZ is offline
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Default Re: Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

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Originally Posted by GEddie View Post
The brain clearly does not function after death; methinks you meant to say "mind."

I for one am very skeptical of NDE; it could too easily be the result of a last dream in the breath-deprived head.

However, if the part of his brain generating consciousness was really knocked out, this would make his experience more credible, as no dreams could register or be remembered.

ICXC NIKA
However there was a case of a person that had an NDE after he sufferered an accident.
After he woke up he called out for a certain doctor and a nurse that had heroically tried to save his life. He described them as he did not know their names. He wanted to thank them so he was adamant.
The problem with that? He was and is and has always been BLIND!
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  #4  
Old Nov 29, '12, 3:42 pm
Bakmoon Bakmoon is offline
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Default Re: Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

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Originally Posted by JerryZ View Post
However there was a case of a person that had an NDE after he sufferered an accident.
After he woke up he called out for a certain doctor and a nurse that had heroically tried to save his life. He described them as he did not know their names. He wanted to thank them so he was adamant.
The problem with that? He was and is and has always been BLIND!
That's really amazing. Do you know where I could read more about that story? I just gotta find out more about that.
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  #5  
Old Nov 29, '12, 4:13 pm
GEddie GEddie is offline
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Default Re: Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

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Originally Posted by Bakmoon View Post
That's really amazing. Do you know where I could read more about that story? I just gotta find out more about that.
Indeed. Is this any more than anecdotal??
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  #6  
Old Nov 29, '12, 6:01 pm
Giants Giants is offline
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Default Re: Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandingo View Post
I'm not sure if too many are familiar with Dr. Eben Alexander - the Neurosurgeon who was in a coma for a week and had an extremely vivid Near Death Experience.

Quick summary - prior to his NDE, he was a typical skeptic 'Christian' who didn't see any evidence that the brain could function after death, that is, until he experienced it for himself. The best part is that he was actually able to analyze his own tests and confirm that he had absolutely no brain function during his coma and that the Meningitis had wiped out the part of his brain that provides consciousness. Yet, what he experienced was what he described as 'more real and profound than this earthly realm'.

Anyway, he was on Dennis Prager yesterday and I was extremely captivated. He described starting out in a kind of earthly realm in a 'worms-eye view' in a bubbling, muddy, monotonous, dark underground. He stated that he felt like he was there for a very long time. Then, he was rescued by a spinning, brilliant white light. Once he reached the 'heavenly' realm, he could actually see time come to a stop in the earthly realm and was kind of in 'infinity'.

Later, Mr. Prager asks him what happens to people who do atrocious things here on earth. Dr. Alexander states that people that inflict pain here on earth will experience what their victims felt, but even more extreme.

This is where I believe Purgatory may have been experienced. I found it extremely interesting that he was almost, as I understood it, 'reborn' and seemed to be a place that doesn't seem very 'heavenly'. Dark, monotonous, muddy and he felt like he was there a long time. Couple this with his description that people experience the pain that they inflict on others and I can kind of see a purging of sins and being reborn.

Anyway, I wish I could link you to the talk, as I'm a member of Pragertopia and was able to listen to it again with my wife last night. She was in as much awe as I was. I felt so at peace when I went to bed last night.

So, did anyone else hear the talk and have any input? I wasn't sure if this was the correct place to put this so Mods feel free to move it as needed.
Alexander's claims about the inactivity of his brain have since been debunked. The tests he claims proved that his cortex was inactive are incapable of proving any such thing. His argument is essentially that his cortex "died" while he was in the coma, and then grew back - which would be even more amazing than any NDE he claims to have had.
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  #7  
Old Nov 30, '12, 5:30 am
danzibr danzibr is offline
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Default Re: Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

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Originally Posted by Giants View Post
Alexander's claims about the inactivity of his brain have since been debunked. The tests he claims proved that his cortex was inactive are incapable of proving any such thing. His argument is essentially that his cortex "died" while he was in the coma, and then grew back - which would be even more amazing than any NDE he claims to have had.
And those debunking claims have been debunked. Don't believe me 'cause I'm some random dude not supporting what I say?

Feel free to read this. Not saying it proves anything, but at least it's something.
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  #8  
Old Dec 4, '12, 1:49 am
Giants Giants is offline
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Default Re: Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

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Originally Posted by danzibr View Post
And those debunking claims have been debunked. Don't believe me 'cause I'm some random dude not supporting what I say?

Feel free to read this. Not saying it proves anything, but at least it's something.
It's not much. Alexander's entire argument rests on the premise that his cortex was essentially dead while he was in a coma. Given that he's now alive and able to write a best-selling book, that means his 'dead' cortex later grew back. Leaving aside how incredible that is, he talks about a CT scan confirming his cortex's formerly inactive state. Problem is, a CT scan can't confirm any such thing, even if it were true. And he has nothing to say about the sorts of neurological tests (fMRI, EEG, etc.) that would indicate a cortex's activity level. He speaks with high-handed authority about how a DMT surge in his brain could never have caused the experience he had, but for this to be an honest claim, he would've needed to have at least experimented with DMT in the past. Has he ever done this? From his interviews, it doesn't appear that he has.

Overall, there's just a startling lack of scientific rigor underlying Dr. Alexander's claims.
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  #9  
Old Dec 4, '12, 3:05 am
filter2700 filter2700 is offline
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Default Re: Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

NDE's are absolutely real according to the people who experience them. They all describe feeling more conscious, alive, and aware than they had ever been while on earth. This is the beginning of Howard Storms NDE, where he was tricked into entering hell by demons. He now founded a Christian Church, I encourage you all to read this further.

"An Invitation to Hell From Strange Beings:

[Howard Storm was in intense agony and dying.]

Struggling to say goodbye to my wife, I wrestled with my emotions. Telling her that I loved her very much was as much of a goodbye as I could utter because of my emotional distress.

Sort of relaxing and closing my eyes, I waited for the end. This was it, I felt. This was the big nothing, the big blackout, the one you never wake up from, the end of existence. I had absolute certainty that there was nothing beyond this life because that was how really smart people understood it.

While I was undergoing this stress, prayer or anything like that never occurred to me. I never once thought about it. If I mentioned God's name at all it was only as a profanity.

For a time there was a sense of being unconscious or asleep. I'm not sure how long it lasted, but I felt really strange, and I opened my eyes. To my surprise I was standing up next to the bed, and I was looking at my body laying in the bed.

My first reaction was, "This is crazy! I can't be standing here looking down at myself. That's not possible."

This wasn't what I expected, this wasn't right. Why was I still alive? I wanted oblivion. Yet I was looking at a thing that was my body, and it just didn't have that much meaning to me.

But I knew that it wasn't a dream. I became aware that strangely I felt more alert, more aware, more alive than I had ever felt in my entire life. All my senses were extremely acute. Everything felt tingly and alive. The floor was cool and my bare feet felt moist and clammy. This had to be real. I squeezed my fists and was amazed at how much I was feeling in my hands just by making a fist."

- http://www.near-death.com/experiences/storm01.html

"Pam Reynolds met all the criteria for surviving whole brain death. While in this state, she experienced an extraordinary NDE. Because her death was not final, it cannot be said that she survived "biological" death. However, her case provides an excellent example of how there is nothing "near" about the so-called "near-death" experience.

"Pam's extraordinary NDE occurred while undergoing a rare surgical procedure to remove a brain aneurysm. The procedure required her to be:

1. Put unconscious using an anesthetic.
2. Her body temperature lowered to 60 degrees.
3. Her heart and breathing stopped.
4. Her brain waves allowed to flatten
5. The blood drained from her head.

While in this condition, she floated out of her body and watched the doctors operate on her lifeless body. Later, she was able to describe the surgical instruments, the conversation, and the procedures performed during her surgery."

Quotes from those who experienced NDE's:

"Death is leaving your physical body and facing God. We then become pure Mind. Our minds become naked in that our thoughts are there for all to understand perfectly." (Dr. George Ritchie)

"Death is like falling asleep or like waking up. We leave one state of consciousness and enter another." (Joni Maggi)

"The memory of a NDE is more real than the memory of what one did yesterday." (Dr. Rene Turner)

- http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research10.html

You have to be careful with this website though, I ONLY go to it to read the NDE experiences, because that website does get into some reincarnation stuff. I think its a good site with documented cases of NDE experiences, which is the only reason I go there. I get uneasy when they sometimes talk about "rebirth" and "prebirth" ideas, just be cautious. Other than that, for pure educational reasons it is very educational to read these peoples experiences.
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  #10  
Old Dec 4, '12, 10:54 am
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mab23 mab23 is offline
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Default Re: Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven - Purgatory?

Ive watched a documentary on him

very interesting - I also thought of purgatory
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