Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Spirituality
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Dec 5, '12, 12:24 pm
JRKH's Avatar
JRKH JRKH is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 14, 2007
Posts: 22,134
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default "never known to fail" prayers......

I guess I'm in kind of a snarky mood today....I don't know....

But I just saw another thread talking about a prayer to the Blessed Virgin that has "never found to fail"....and my "QA" antenna went up....

Where are the studies and stats that make such claims valid???

Of course - to me the very idea that any prayer, sincerely offered, "fails" is simply preposterous. Just because a person doesn't get the answer they were looking for does not equal failure.
So what is the need for making such a claim?
Isn't making such a claim necessarily admitting that some prayers fail (at least sometimes)?

Maybe it's just me....But I find such things to be unhelpful.

Like I said...guess I'm in a snarky kind of mood today....

Peace
James
__________________
.... if I have all faith so as to move mountians but have not love, I am nothing. - (1Cor 13:2)


The Best book on Spirituality that I ever Read: "The Fulfillment of All Desire"

Oh my God , I will continue
to perform, all my actions
for the love of Thee
Amen.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Dec 5, '12, 1:36 pm
po18guy's Avatar
po18guy po18guy is offline
Forum Elder
Prayer Warrior
Radio Club Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2007
Posts: 23,807
Religion: One. Holy. Catholic. Apostolic.
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Amen! The requirement for three daly repetitions, plus the requirement that the favor be publicized, places this dangerously close to superstition, in my mind. Neither God, not the Blessed virgin are vending machines.
__________________
"He was the first one in the world to break all of the commandments at once"
- Bishop Fulton Sheen referencing Moses throwing the stone tablets -
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Dec 5, '12, 1:48 pm
maltmom maltmom is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2012
Posts: 2,368
Religion: Catholic Convert
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

I can't seem to find it, but I remember seeing a sticky or a rule that threads about a "never known to fail" prayers are banned. I must be snarky as well b/c I have the same reaction when I see one of these threads going up.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Dec 5, '12, 1:53 pm
AlanFromWichita AlanFromWichita is offline
Banned
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: August 17, 2004
Posts: 13,587
Religion: catholic
Send a message via AIM to AlanFromWichita
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Our pastors have been adamant about keeping them out of the adoration chapels. I remember Father Busch saying that those things end up preying on people. People used to leave them and when it came to his attention, he said any of them found in the chapel will be discarded.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Dec 5, '12, 1:57 pm
Carolus Martell's Avatar
Carolus Martell Carolus Martell is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2011
Posts: 554
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

"never known to fail" prayers

I agree in that there's no such thing.

Besides it's a sign of the truly faithful that they continue to pray even when their personal prayers go unanswered. Why? Because they know with absolute certainty God is still listening.
__________________
Fear God and dread naught.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:08 pm
AlanFromWichita AlanFromWichita is offline
Banned
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: August 17, 2004
Posts: 13,587
Religion: catholic
Send a message via AIM to AlanFromWichita
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Matt 6:7
In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:09 pm
CrimsonThorn's Avatar
CrimsonThorn CrimsonThorn is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2012
Posts: 846
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

All prayers are never known to fail because God does not fail.

If youre praying for a sportscar and a divorce, probably not going to happen.

God answers all prayers and He knows whats best for us

Therefore I dont see am issue with that phrase, as its true. Perhaps for them to "work" it requires a bit more faith and less scrutiny, the kind of faith children have.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:10 pm
AlanFromWichita AlanFromWichita is offline
Banned
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: August 17, 2004
Posts: 13,587
Religion: catholic
Send a message via AIM to AlanFromWichita
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonThorn View Post
Therefore I dont see am issue with that phrase, as its true. Perhaps for them to "work" it requires a bit more faith and less scrutiny, the kind of faith children have.
The problem is, it's like playing Let's Make a Deal, with God. It's basically bartering God X number of prayers for Y result. That circumvents both justice and mercy.

Also it violates pride, in that we get the false notion that we can do something to guarantee a result in the future. Scripture speaks against that as well.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:13 pm
CrimsonThorn's Avatar
CrimsonThorn CrimsonThorn is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2012
Posts: 846
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanFromWichita View Post
The problem is, it's like playing Let's Make a Deal, with God. It's basically bartering God X number of prayers for Y result. That circumvents both justice and mercy.
I dont see it that way.

God always answers....Yes, No, Be Patient.

God answers all prayers and they NEVER fail, sometimes they are just not ansewered in the way we were expecting.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:20 pm
AlanFromWichita AlanFromWichita is offline
Banned
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: August 17, 2004
Posts: 13,587
Religion: catholic
Send a message via AIM to AlanFromWichita
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonThorn View Post
I dont see it that way.

God always answers....Yes, No, Be Patient.

God answers all prayers and they NEVER fail, sometimes they are just not ansewered in the way we were expecting.
The way you are using the term, I agree with you. And in fact, when I get "be patient," eventually what I do get is an upgrade to what I'd hoped for. Yay!

I'm talking about certain pamphlets that people leave in churches, and in our church in the adoration chapel. It would say that if you said x prayers, a certain number of times a day, and there could be other conditions such as going to daily Mass or whatever, then you will receive some particular gift from God, and these prayers are never known to fail. In other words, if you say these prayers, you will get the gift because everybody who ever said these prayers got that gift in the past. Then people say the prayer, and their loved one doesn't get better, and they feel cheated by God. And they feel terrible guilt because they think they messed up the prayers and thus failed to bring healing to their spouse, for example. So basically we're cornering God and claiming that if you follow the formula for prayer, God has no options except "yes," thus you are conforming God to your own will. This is why our pastors are so adamant against them. They mess up people's faith and their emotions.

Alan
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:23 pm
AlanFromWichita AlanFromWichita is offline
Banned
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: August 17, 2004
Posts: 13,587
Religion: catholic
Send a message via AIM to AlanFromWichita
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Here's an example of what we're talking about:

Oh, most beautiful flower of Mount Carmel, fruitful vine, splendor of Heaven. Blessed Mother of the Son of God; Immaculate Virgin, assist me in my necessity.

Oh, Star of the Sea, help me and show me you are my Mother.
Oh, Holy Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven and Earth, I humbly beseech you from the bottom of my heart to succour me in my necessity. (Mention your request here).

There are none that can withstand your power.
Oh, Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. (3x).

Holy Mary, I place this prayer in your hands. (3x). Amen.

Say this prayer for 3 consecutive days and then you must publish it and it will be granted to you.


**************************************** *******
So basically it's a fill-in-the-blank requisition form for favors from God. Notice it needs you to publish it because it's like a virus. It wants you to share it with other host minds.

Alan


Source: http://americaneedsfatima.blogspot.c...-of-mount.html
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:27 pm
CrimsonThorn's Avatar
CrimsonThorn CrimsonThorn is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2012
Posts: 846
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanFromWichita View Post
The way you are using the term, I agree with you. And in fact, when I get "be patient," eventually what I do get is an upgrade to what I'd hoped for. Yay!

I'm talking about certain pamphlets that people leave in churches, and in our church in the adoration chapel. It would say that if you said x prayers, a certain number of times a day, and there could be other conditions such as going to daily Mass or whatever, then you will receive some particular gift from God, and these prayers are never known to fail. In other words, if you say these prayers, you will get the gift because everybody who ever said these prayers got that gift in the past. Then people say the prayer, and their loved one doesn't get better, and they feel cheated by God. And they feel terrible guilt because they think they messed up the prayers and thus failed to bring healing to their spouse, for example. So basically we're cornering God and claiming that if you follow the formula for prayer, God has no options except "yes," thus you are conforming God to your own will. This is why our pastors are so adamant against them. They mess up people's faith and their emotions.

Alan
Ah, so the problem really isnt with the phrase, prayers, or pamphlet...its with the peoples' perception.

We dont think as God thinks, and if we pray for material things we most likely are not going to get them. Praying for a sick family member...sometimes they get better, other times they do not, God has His reasons. That doesnt mean the prayers didnt work. How do we know the prayers for them did not in fact benefit them in some way, especially spiritually?

We can pray prayers for conversion that are never known to fail, like the Rosary...just because we dont see that happen immediately doesnt mean it wont in 30 years. If the person never converts, how do we know it didnt help someone else who did? How do we know a person hasnt converted in their dying breath?

Jesus rose people from the deas. Jesus is ever alive and with us today as He was then. Anything is possible, it just requires pure sincere faith in its simplest form, without agendas or selfishness attached.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:31 pm
CrimsonThorn's Avatar
CrimsonThorn CrimsonThorn is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2012
Posts: 846
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanFromWichita View Post
Here's an example of what we're talking about:

Oh, most beautiful flower of Mount Carmel, fruitful vine, splendor of Heaven. Blessed Mother of the Son of God; Immaculate Virgin, assist me in my necessity.

Oh, Star of the Sea, help me and show me you are my Mother.
Oh, Holy Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven and Earth, I humbly beseech you from the bottom of my heart to succour me in my necessity. (Mention your request here).

There are none that can withstand your power.
Oh, Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. (3x).

Holy Mary, I place this prayer in your hands. (3x). Amen.

Say this prayer for 3 consecutive days and then you must publish it and it will be granted to you.


**************************************** *******
So basically it's a fill-in-the-blank requisition form for favors from God. Notice it needs you to publish it because it's like a virus. It wants you to share it with other host minds.

Alan


Source: http://americaneedsfatima.blogspot.c...-of-mount.html
I dont see a problem. If it is promised that it will be granted, then it will. Maybe not in the way I intended, but I believe that it will.

Again I also thinl it depends what you ask for. If youre asking to be granted spiritual graces to help you better immitaye the life of Jesus, it will happen.

A comfessor that I frequent advised me to keep a close relationship with the Blessed Virgin and she WILL grant me by the request of her Son, all that is needed to live a holy life.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:38 pm
vames vames is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2009
Posts: 927
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanFromWichita View Post
Our pastors have been adamant about keeping them out of the adoration chapels. I remember Father Busch saying that those things end up preying on people. People used to leave them and when it came to his attention, he said any of them found in the chapel will be discarded.
It happens in my church too, with various prayers to St. Rita with the same magic formula "then you must publish it and it will be granted to you". Superstition 100%. Of course, the priest collects and discards them.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestio...d-superstition
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Dec 5, '12, 2:38 pm
AlanFromWichita AlanFromWichita is offline
Banned
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: August 17, 2004
Posts: 13,587
Religion: catholic
Send a message via AIM to AlanFromWichita
Default Re: "never known to fail" prayers......

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonThorn View Post
I dont see a problem. If it is promised that it will be granted, then it will. Maybe not in the way I intended, but I believe that it will.

Again I also thinl it depends what you ask for. If youre asking to be granted spiritual graces to help you better immitaye the life of Jesus, it will happen.

A comfessor that I frequent advised me to keep a close relationship with the Blessed Virgin and she WILL grant me by the request of her Son, all that is needed to live a holy life.
I'm sorry. We're totally talking past each other. I'm not talking about your personal view toward the phrase. I'm talking about how these pamphlets affect actual people, in real life, and my pastor explained clearly. People leave the Church over these things.

Sure you can claim Rom 8:28 and I, like you, believe that ALL THINGS work for the good of those who love the Lord. So I personally don't care if people pray for their poker game as far as I'm concerned, or pray that they get good tarot cards. I'm just saying what their destructive effects are, in real life not in the ideal life, that could very well be the kingdom, for you, you sound very very positive about prayer and I like that.

The reason these are sinister is they look nice and holy to the unwary. And if you think I'm paranoid, or not, that's fine. I will not concede that these things do not have destructive results because I've known some of the victims, and I've known of more because of what my pastor told me.

Alan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Spirituality

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8259Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: janiejnb
5022CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: Vim71
4346Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: FootStool
4029OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: B79
3835SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3572Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3233Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3207Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Chast Forever
3139Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3049For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Thomas Choe



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:32 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.