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  #16  
Old Dec 8, '12, 2:22 am
inocente inocente is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Switzler View Post
Science does not know why science works. In fact, scientists will go out of their way to avoid that question and, if pressed, will give the sort of amusing and unscientific answers one would expect from a child.
Do you mean Catholic scientists or all scientists?
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  #17  
Old Dec 8, '12, 8:49 am
Bubba Switzler Bubba Switzler is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

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Originally Posted by inocente View Post
Do you mean Catholic scientists or all scientists?
I am mostly familiar with materialistic scientists, those who operate entirely within the scientific worldview. That includes, I am sure, some Catholic scientists.

To explain why science works requires going outside science which is why it is unknowable to science and those who insist on keeping within it.
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  #18  
Old Dec 8, '12, 9:16 am
inocente inocente is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

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Originally Posted by Bubba Switzler View Post
I am mostly familiar with materialistic scientists, those who operate entirely within the scientific worldview. That includes, I am sure, some Catholic scientists.

To explain why science works requires going outside science which is why it is unknowable to science and those who insist on keeping within it.
Oh. so you're saying it's those who insist on keeping within science who give "amusing and unscientific answers" (your post #15) about why science works?

A standard answer is that the world contains order, since if it didn't science would be impossible. Can much more be said without speculating? (Both of us might believe the order comes from God, but we can't test that scientifically, so it would be an unscientific answer.)
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  #19  
Old Dec 8, '12, 9:53 am
Bubba Switzler Bubba Switzler is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by inocente View Post
Oh. so you're saying it's those who insist on keeping within science who give "amusing and unscientific answers" (your post #15) about why science works? A standard answer is that the world contains order, since if it didn't science would be impossible. Can much more be said without speculating? (Both of us might believe the order comes from God, but we can't test that scientifically, so it would be an unscientific answer.)
Precisely. (And even to say that "the world contains order" is more loaded than you might at first appreciate. What is "order", after all?)

Which is why I say: this is something science does not (indeed, cannot) know.
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  #20  
Old Dec 8, '12, 10:13 am
Jim Baur Jim Baur is online now
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Default Re: What does science not know?

Please do not laugh, but we do not know how life started.

It is begging the question(s) to assume it started on its own?

Again, please do not laugh, do we know what light is? As of yet, which metaphor do we use, wave or particle?

To what degree of certitude do we have for the forming of Earth? Or, are there competing opinions still?

Also, do we know how the micro physics correlates with the macro physics? Would that matter with the coming into existence of life?

THANKS!
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  #21  
Old Dec 8, '12, 10:17 am
Jim Baur Jim Baur is online now
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Default Re: What does science not know?

I agree with Bubba, if there is a designer(s), one must consider THEM.

It seems to me the point of inanimate moving to animate is a great problem to solve before one jumps to evolution. The opinion of evolution is resting on one great unsolved problem.
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  #22  
Old Dec 8, '12, 10:40 am
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dshix dshix is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Baur View Post
Please do not laugh, but we do not know how life started.

It is begging the question(s) to assume it started on its own?

Again, please do not laugh, do we know what light is? As of yet, which metaphor do we use, wave or particle?

To what degree of certitude do we have for the forming of Earth? Or, are there competing opinions still?

Also, do we know how the micro physics correlates with the macro physics? Would that matter with the coming into existence of life?

THANKS!
We do know what starts the lowest form of bacteria life, and through the theory of evolution you can get to every other living being. However, this can be largely speculative.

As to light, it is photons. Not really much more to say about that. It is a particle.

The forming of the Earth is known (we can't state the exact sequence of events, obviously) but we know what process led to its building.
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  #23  
Old Dec 8, '12, 10:53 am
Jim Baur Jim Baur is online now
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Default Re: What does science not know?

dshix

Thanks!

We know what starts the lowest form of bacteria life. How does that related to life moving from inanimate matter to animate matter millions or billions of years ago? Or, does it relate.

Thanks!

Also how much agreement is there on how the planets formed? I have not studied recently in this area. I remember several competing scientific opinions, about 30 years ago. If I am correct, they all said that the other opinion was incorrect. Who do we mere mortals believe?
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  #24  
Old Dec 8, '12, 11:10 am
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dshix dshix is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

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Originally Posted by Jim Baur View Post
dshix

Thanks!

We know what starts the lowest form of bacteria life. How does that related to life moving from inanimate matter to animate matter millions or billions of years ago? Or, does it relate.

Thanks!

Also how much agreement is there on how the planets formed? I have not studied recently in this area. I remember several competing scientific opinions, about 30 years ago. If I am correct, they all said that the other opinion was incorrect. Who do we mere mortals believe?
To preface my answer, I'll just state that I think evolution is WHOLLY compatible with God, and I believe he very likely used it in the creation of the universe. With this thought in mind, it is definitely possible for animals and humans to have morphed over time from bacteria into intelligent beings (granted God breathed into man an immortal soul and free will at some point, when he was almost entirely evolved) and so create the races of men and species of animals we have today.



As to the how the planets formed, there is no conjecture. Matter naturally comes together through gravity, and over a great amount of time it gradually collected into planets. If you are asking how exactly Earth happened to be just right for humans to live on, the answer would be the hand of God.
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  #25  
Old Dec 8, '12, 12:45 pm
Alberti_Devoveo Alberti_Devoveo is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

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Originally Posted by Jim Baur View Post
Again, please do not laugh, do we know what light is? As of yet, which metaphor do we use, wave or particle?
You have asked this question before and gotten the same response: light is a quanta of energy. It has particle-like behavior and wave-like behavior, but I do not believe we can narrow it down more than that.
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Originally Posted by Jim Baur View Post
To what degree of certitude do we have for the forming of Earth? Or, are there competing opinions still?
Well, since we live here, I am 100% certain that the earth formed .

As far as my planetary formation friends tell me, it is pretty much a known that earth formed from dust after the sun was born. The 'how long it took to do this' and some other details are argued, but the accumulation of dust and gas is well accepted.
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Also, do we know how the micro physics correlates with the macro physics? Would that matter with the coming into existence of life?
Yes we know how, there are books galore on the connections between macro- and micro-physics, between macro-physics and cosmic-physics, and everything in-between.
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  #26  
Old Dec 8, '12, 12:57 pm
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atheistgirl atheistgirl is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

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Originally Posted by Jim Baur View Post
What are the most basic things that science does not know as of yet?
How to explain the Trinity.

What a Jesuit is thinking.

How many Orders of Franciscans are there.



(full credit to BrJR who said this in a reply about something else, somewhere else to someone else and I've never forgotten it, because I still haven't got the coffee stains out )

Sarah x
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  #27  
Old Dec 8, '12, 12:58 pm
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buffalo buffalo is online now
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Default Re: What does science not know?

It does not know anything outside what is observable, testable and repeatable.
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IDvolution - God "breathed" the super language of DNA into the "kinds" in the creative act. Buffalo

"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is a thought of God."

“Science presupposes the trustworthy, intelligent structure of matter, the ‘design’ of creation.”

"A man of conscience, is one who never acquires tolerance, well- being, success, public standing, and approval on the part of prevailing opinion, at the expense of truth."
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  #28  
Old Dec 8, '12, 12:59 pm
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dshix dshix is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atheistgirl View Post
How to explain the Trinity.

What a Jesuit is thinking.

How many Orders of Franciscans are there.



(full credit to BrJR who said this in a reply about something else, somewhere else to someone else and I've never forgotten it, because I still haven't got the coffee stains out )

Sarah x
Ha!
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  #29  
Old Dec 8, '12, 3:09 pm
Charlemagne II Charlemagne II is offline
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Default Re: What does science not know?

While science has made amazing strides in the last 400 years, there are many realms of knowledge that science cannot even touch.

For example, science cannot explain how the universe began. The evernt is called the Big Bang, and the fact that it occurred is not even contested. But how the universe began is another matter. There are no known natural laws that can explain it, and there never will be. Also, how or if the universe will end is also unknown, as there are no laws to govern that except entropy.
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  #30  
Old Dec 8, '12, 6:42 pm
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buffalo buffalo is online now
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Default Re: What does science not know?

In addition science is tentative so what it thinks it knows today may be overturned tomorrow.
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IDvolution - God "breathed" the super language of DNA into the "kinds" in the creative act. Buffalo

"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is a thought of God."

“Science presupposes the trustworthy, intelligent structure of matter, the ‘design’ of creation.”

"A man of conscience, is one who never acquires tolerance, well- being, success, public standing, and approval on the part of prevailing opinion, at the expense of truth."
Pope Benedict XVI

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