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  #1  
Old Sep 8, '05, 11:13 pm
thistle thistle is online now
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Default Born Again Christians

I'm curious what Born Again Christians mean by being "born again". As a Catholic I know we are only born twice. First time is our physical birth and then when we are baptised we are "born again" in Christ. This is also what Jesus tells to Nicodemus in John 3.
Are Born Again Christians saying they believe in a third birth and if so, what and how do they arrive at this view?
  #2  
Old Sep 9, '05, 2:41 am
ephphatha ephphatha is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

I don't know what most Christians mean by it, but I understand it to mean that the same thing as regeneration. It's when the Holy Spirit changes your heart, making you willing and able to believe in Jesus and embrace the gospel. Of course I could be wrong about that.
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  #3  
Old Sep 9, '05, 4:11 am
deb1 deb1 is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

The term 'born again' talks about a spiritual rebirth. A nonChristian adult accepts Jesus into his/her life and becomes a Christian, therefore they are born again or made a new person. This isn't a bad belief in itself. WHen you are asked if you have been 'born again' the questioner wishes to know if you had an emotional moment when you first recognized Jesus as your Lord and Savior. At my old church, our pastor seemed surprised that I didn't know the exact date that I became a Christian.


When you are brought up in a Christian home, you know about Jesus almost from birth. You are simply always a Christian. Some people also come to a gradual acceptance of Jesus as our savior. Both groups are every bit as much a Christian as those who undergo the emotional experiences that Born Againers demand.

Is there some part of the bible that uses the term Born Again without refering to baptism? Just curious.
  #4  
Old Sep 9, '05, 7:48 am
Lillith Lillith is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

Quote:
Originally Posted by deb1
At my old church, our pastor seemed surprised that I didn't know the exact date that I became a Christian..

Hi Deb...you are right on about the meaning, and the fact that the date is remembered... this date is ingrained in the memory, My DH wrote it in his Bible, saved oct. 23, 1977 under the big oak tree in my back yard, but ask what date they were baptised and it is hard to recall (my husbands family anyway) and there are no records or certificates.

It is also common for folks in my area to become born again from the ages of 8-10yrs. old, and that makes sense and coincides with the fact that children at this age begin reasoning....the same period when Catholic children are mentally capable of chosing the Eucharist...

I have always seen a lot of common ground in these two events
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  #5  
Old Sep 9, '05, 9:19 am
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

So technically all Catholics are "Born Again" Christians.
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  #6  
Old Sep 9, '05, 9:56 am
scylla scylla is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

All Catholics are Born Again Christians, we just have a little different understanding of it.

Depending on your affiliation, some Born Again Christians accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour multiple times, and Baptism usually is thought of a sign of your faith after you have accepted Jesus.

Most Born Again Christians have a deep love for Christ, unfortunately depending upon their background\affiliation\pastor some have a little prejudice against Catholicism. I spend a lot of time around Born Again Christians and try to take every opportunity to bring them to discover the Catholic Church for what it really is.

There are many who despite the difficulty will study their way into the Catholic Church, and by God's Grace they might come home to the Catholic Church.

God Bless
Scylla
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  #7  
Old Sep 9, '05, 11:44 am
palmas85 palmas85 is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

The term Born Again in the Protestant sense refers to the time when a particular person accepts Jesus Christ into his life as his personal Lord and Savior. This commitment can be made either personally or communally and while Baptism by water is preferred it is usually not necessary in the scheme of things. The belief is that through your belief and aceptance of Christ you have been baptized in the Blood of the Lamb. This supercedes any other Baptism that you may have had. In fact any other Baptism would not be relevent anyway since only by freely making the commitment to Christ does the baptism mean anything.

The Born Again Christian rejects infant Baptisms, thus most Catholic Baptisms are invalid in their eyes. In fact, the whole Catholic faith is invalid in their eyes due to numerous errors they say the Church promotes and glorifies. By and large Born Again Christians are not ecumenically inclined at all, and feel a extraordinary need to promote their agenda and beliefs. They do have a genuine concern for your soul though and will generally make extraordinary efforts to convert you especially if you are Catholic. Most, not all, but most believe in the doctrine of the Rapture as well, and see the earth as being in the beginning stages of the end times.

The really interseting thing about their belief is that once you have accepted Jesus Christ, you basically have a get out of jail free card. Once the grace has been given and accepted, no matter what you do, you are saved. You cannot be denied Paradise no matter what happens.

Trust me, if you are not Born Again and Saved, their watchwords, you are doomed to eternal fire and suffering. Only by freely accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior will you be saved. Nothing else matters.

At least that is what they believe.
  #8  
Old Sep 9, '05, 9:58 pm
scylla scylla is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

We do have to be careful about categorizing Born Again Christians as their beliefs also vary depending upon their own faith traditions. It depends on who started their church and what paths it took.

Some do believe in OSAS
Some do not.

Some believe in different rapture doctrines, speaking in tongues, women's ordination and other dividing beliefs.

The majority have a deep love of Christ and we should share with them our mutual love of Christ. They are our separated bretheren and if we can share with them more some might look into the Catholic Church and have a better appreciation for it.

God Bless
Scylla
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  #9  
Old Sep 11, '05, 1:01 pm
sara888 sara888 is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

There is NO difference between Born Again and the OSAS Doctrine.

This Born Again Sect profess the gospel associated with eternal security, Sin can never bring a Christian to his spiritual death, regardless what sin is committed.
.Eternal security is a dangerous doctrine, which has many on the road to hell thinking they are on the road to heaven because they once had a moment of true faith which brought regeneration.

Sara
  #10  
Old Sep 11, '05, 4:18 pm
deb1 deb1 is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

Quote:
Originally Posted by sara888
There is NO difference between Born Again and the OSAS Doctrine.

This Born Again Sect profess the gospel associated with eternal security, Sin can never bring a Christian to his spiritual death, regardless what sin is committed.
.Eternal security is a dangerous doctrine, which has many on the road to hell thinking they are on the road to heaven because they once had a moment of true faith which brought regeneration.
Sara
I think that there is a difference between the born again experince and OSAS. There those who are not brought up Christian, who do indeed have a very emotional moment when they aknowledge God. Many Protestants who later convert to Catholic have had these experiences.

The problem is that many fundamentalist insists that the only way to become Christian is to suddenly acknowledge yourself a sinner and 'ask Jesus into your heart'. They deny the Christianity of those who either grew up in a Christian home and have been Christian from birth or those who came to a gradual reliazation of their faith.


There is also the problem that people with these emotional experiences sometimes are disappointed that they can't keep up the psychological high that they had upon conversion. So, there is a percentage that fall away.
  #11  
Old Sep 11, '05, 9:25 pm
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pnewton pnewton is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

Not all Christians who preach being born again believe in once saved, always saved.

In reference to the water of John, chapter 3, where Nicodemus comes to call, being born of water is sometimes believed to refer to the process of physical birth.
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  #12  
Old Sep 13, '05, 8:53 pm
Malachi4U Malachi4U is offline
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Talking Re: Born Again Christians

I'm a "Born Again Catholic!"


Praise God!
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2 Tim 4:6-7 "For I am even now ready to be sacrificed: and the time of my dissolution is at hand. I have fought a good fight: I have finished my course: I have kept the faith." Have you?
  #13  
Old Sep 13, '05, 10:18 pm
Mystophilus Mystophilus is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

Quote:
Originally Posted by deb1
When you are brought up in a Christian home, you know about Jesus almost from birth. You are simply always a Christian. Some people also come to a gradual acceptance of Jesus as our savior. Both groups are every bit as much a Christian as those who undergo the emotional experiences that Born Againers demand.
This is generally true, although some who are born into Christian families do undergo separate, personal experience of affirmation.

As a general rule for Protestants, those who make an entirely separate commitment tend to be more enthusiastic, to work harder, and also to burn out faster. Those born into Christian families tend to be more mellow about their faith, in ways both good and bad. I was of the first type, my Beloved of the second.

Quote:
Is there some part of the bible that uses the term Born Again without refering to baptism? Just curious.
The source text for the term, and the doctrine, is this:
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." (John 3:4-8)

Jesus presents a clear dichotomy between the water/flesh birth and the Spirit birth. The Spirit birth clearly refers to a spiritual, rather than a physical event. Opinions are divided as to whether this is the spiritual event which accompanies the physical event of baptism with water.
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  #14  
Old Sep 13, '05, 11:03 pm
Shlemele Shlemele is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmas85
The Born Again Christian rejects infant Baptisms, thus most Catholic Baptisms are invalid in their eyes. In fact, the whole Catholic faith is invalid in their eyes due to numerous errors they say the Church promotes and glorifies. By and large Born Again Christians are not ecumenically inclined at all, and feel a extraordinary need to promote their agenda and beliefs. They do have a genuine concern for your soul though and will generally make extraordinary efforts to convert you especially if you are Catholic. Most, not all, but most believe in the doctrine of the Rapture as well, and see the earth as being in the beginning stages of the end times.

You are painting with an awfully broad brush here, my city has a church counsel who consisted of pastors from all Christian churches in the city. During my fathers time there many invitations were extended to the RC priest to attend and participate. Only when that priest stepped down and another priest attended was the RC church represented on the counsel. The second priest (Father Geneli as I recall) participated fully and even had breakfast many times with my father (a Mennonite pastor). If this is how we are spreading our anti-Catholic propaganda we are really shooting ourselves in the foot!

That being said we do place an emphasis on making a conscientious decision to follow Christ. As most devout Catholics make this decision on a daily basis I can hardly see that a decision of faith has not been made. While there are coat-tail riders, Catholic and Protestant alike (Anabaptist too, I'm not leaving us out) I believe by and large we are all what we call saved.


The really interesting thing about their belief is that once you have accepted Jesus Christ, you basically have a get out of jail free card. Once the grace has been given and accepted, no matter what you do, you are saved. You cannot be denied Paradise no matter what happens.

This is not universally true. My uncle has rejected the Lord and I know it weighs heavy on my mothers heart. We believe that you can loose your salvation but I think we are probably a bit more lax on what constitutes loss of salvation. All in all the portrayal of salvation as a get out of jail free ticket is false. If someone treats it like that it brings into question the sincerity of their decision and the validity of their faith. We believe that proper faith generates works and if one exhibits one without the other it is hollow and good for nothing.
If you look hard enough you can find a church that believes just about anything. The truth is however most Protestants and Anabaptists see Catholics as another denomination, albeit one that has some beliefs that if you are unfamiliar with them can freak you out a bit (I have been through several such "Freak Outs" for the record ). There is some level of distrust inherent of things that are strange but I got a lot of the same thing growing up in a predominantly Catholic town so it works both ways.

I guess in summary don't base your beliefs about another group solely on those who take an extreme opinion.
  #15  
Old Sep 14, '05, 6:12 am
sara888 sara888 is offline
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Default Re: Born Again Christians

Am I to understand that the Born Again Sect do NOT profess Assured Salvation.?

Can a Born Again follower lose their Salvation?




Sara
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