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  #1  
Old Jan 23, '13, 2:21 am
oneofmany oneofmany is offline
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Default Who Baptized John the Baptist?

Did John the Baptist get baptized? Who did it or did he baptize himself? When Jesus came to be baptized, why didn't John ask Jesus to baptize him?
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  #2  
Old Jan 23, '13, 3:42 am
DaveBj DaveBj is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

We don't know. Period. We don't know that John ever was baptized, altho my guess is that he might have been, by the Essenes.

With regard to your last question, John did say that Jesus should be the one baptizing him.
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  #3  
Old Jan 23, '13, 3:52 am
aicirt aicirt is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

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Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
We don't know. Period. We don't know that John ever was baptized, altho my guess is that he might have been, by the Essenes.

With regard to your last question, John did say that Jesus should be the one baptizing him.

Why would you think he was baptized by the Essenes? If they had been baptized, they would have become Christian yet we think of them as Jews.

Where did the idea of baptism come from? Was it a revelation from God and, if so, when did that happen?
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  #4  
Old Jan 23, '13, 7:53 am
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Zekariya Zekariya is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

John's baptism was not in the Trinitarian formula and was of a different purpose than Christian baptism.
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  #5  
Old Jan 23, '13, 7:57 am
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Zekariya Zekariya is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

I like this post from another thread:

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Originally Posted by mdgspencer View Post
The baptism of John was a ritual that was not meant to give the grace of God. The same word, baptism, was used in both cases, but baptism in each case was different. Pagan religions also baptized without giving God's grace, and John's baptism simply answered the same basic human spiritual need to feel purified. It did not involve the act of God Christian baptism always involves.
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  #6  
Old Jan 23, '13, 8:07 am
aicirt aicirt is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

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Originally Posted by Zekariya View Post
John's baptism was not in the Trinitarian formula and was of a different purpose than Christian baptism.
What was the purpose of his baptism? And how do we know what formula he used? If it was in the Trinitarian formula, then when was the actual sacrament of baptism initiated and by whom?
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Old Jan 23, '13, 8:09 am
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Zekariya Zekariya is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

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Originally Posted by aicirt View Post
What was the purpose of his baptism? And how do we know what formula he used? If it was in the Trinitarian formula, then when was the actual sacrament of baptism initiated and by whom?
John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. It was NOT in the Trinitarian formula and it has nothing to do with Christian baptism instituted by Christ. The word, baptism, means immerse and that is all that John did.
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  #8  
Old Jan 23, '13, 9:44 am
aicirt aicirt is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

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Originally Posted by Zekariya View Post
John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. It was NOT in the Trinitarian formula and it has nothing to do with Christian baptism instituted by Christ. The word, baptism, means immerse and that is all that John did.
When did Christ baptize?
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Old Jan 23, '13, 11:29 am
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kkollwitz kkollwitz is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

When did Jesus baptize?

Check John 3:

22 "After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized. 23 John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and people came and were baptized."

26 And they came to John, and said to him, "Rabbi, he who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you bore witness, here he is, baptizing, and all are going to him."

But not for long, see John 4:

1 Now when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples), 3 he left Judea and departed again to Galilee.
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  #10  
Old Jan 23, '13, 3:10 pm
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
We don't know. Period. We don't know that John ever was baptized, altho my guess is that he might have been, by the Essenes.

With regard to your last question, John did say that Jesus should be the one baptizing him.
The Essenes did not 'baptize' in the Christian sense. They partook of ritual immersions in a miqveh, but then again so did all Jews at the time. The only difference is that the Essenes apparently did it several times a day.

Last edited by patrick457; Jan 23, '13 at 3:25 pm.
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  #11  
Old Jan 23, '13, 3:25 pm
DaveBj DaveBj is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aicirt View Post
Why would you think he was baptized by the Essenes? If they had been baptized, they would have become Christian yet we think of them as Jews.

Where did the idea of baptism come from? Was it a revelation from God and, if so, when did that happen?
See patrick457's post #10. The mikvah could have been considered a sort of baptism. And the word "baptism" doesn't necessarily mean "Christian baptism;" for starters, John's baptism was not a Christian baptism.

I don't know. It just appeared in the Gospels, with John preaching repentance and then dipping repentant sinners in the waters of the Jordan River.
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Old Jan 23, '13, 3:45 pm
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
See patrick457's post #10. The mikvah could have been considered a sort of baptism. And the word "baptism" doesn't necessarily mean "Christian baptism;" for starters, John's baptism was not a Christian baptism.

I don't know. It just appeared in the Gospels, with John preaching repentance and then dipping repentant sinners in the waters of the Jordan River.
Josephus is apparently intrigued by John's baptism and understands it first as a purification of the body, playing the same role as the miqveh. The spiritual question involved is whether John has the power to forgive sins, perhaps with the aid of water that has mystical properties. Josephus strongly denies that John claimed any such power: the washing was an outward physical manifestation of a spiritual commitment to repentance and performing good works.
Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God, and was a very just punishment for what he did against John called the baptist. For Herod had him killed, although he was a good man and had urged the Jews to exert themselves to virtue, both as to justice toward one another and reverence towards God, and having done so join together in washing. For immersion in water, it was clear to him, could not be used for the forgiveness of sins, but as a sanctification of the body, and only if the soul was already thoroughly purified by right actions.
Which is somewhat close to what the gospels say:
In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." [...] Then Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan were going out to him, and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
The other differences between normal ritual baths and John's own is that while miqvaoth could be found almost everywhere, John holds his exclusively in different parts of the Jordan river (full of symbolic significance) and that while normal immersions are usually self-administered, in John's case you apparently needed him to perform.
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  #13  
Old Jan 23, '13, 4:00 pm
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aicirt View Post
Where did the idea of baptism come from? Was it a revelation from God and, if so, when did that happen?
Baptism as a practice would have been derived from Jewish purificatory immersion. Now the concept which links it with repentance is something that was peculiar to John. Who knows? Perhaps he received inspiration.
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  #14  
Old Jan 23, '13, 4:07 pm
aicirt aicirt is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekariya View Post
John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. It was NOT in the Trinitarian formula and it has nothing to do with Christian baptism instituted by Christ. The word, baptism, means immerse and that is all that John did.
Okay but after John baptizes Christ in Luke 3:21,,,,,,,After all the people had been baptized and Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in fodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, "You are my beloved Son, with you I am well pleased."

Here's the Trinity. If He wasn't baptized in the Trinity, why was the baptism so profound that all three persons of the Trinity appeared?
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  #15  
Old Jan 23, '13, 4:18 pm
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist?

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Originally Posted by aicirt View Post
Okay but after John baptizes Christ in Luke 3:21,,,,,,,After all the people had been baptized and Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in fodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, "You are my beloved Son, with you I am well pleased."

Here's the Trinity. If He wasn't baptized in the Trinity, why was the baptism so profound that all three persons of the Trinity appeared?
That baptism was important because Jesus was important. Besides, why would John have knowledge of a mystery that wasn't even properly revealed or defined yet?
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