RCIA classes. What to expect? - Page 2

Pug · #16 Jul 14, '04, 2:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Br. Rich SFO

Most really belong in a shorter "RCIA like" process

Yep. Now if only we had 50 new people each year so we could have classes tailored to each category of need! But we have more like 10 to 16 per year around my neck of the woods. So we have the one set of classes that try to meet all the needs. We'll have to get our praying in gear!

Hey I know what you mean about the catechumen thing. Right around the begining of January we do the baptism of Jesus readings and then there is some tongue twisting as you talk to half who are baptized and the other half who aren't.

newby · #17 Jul 14, '04, 3:43 pm

I am an instructor in our parish RCIA program. We start in late August and go thru a 6 week period of inquiry. We teach the basics of the faith..and some of the Traditions and the Liturgy. After the inquiry we move into the next phase that goes til Easter when most come into the church at the Vigil Service. After Easter we continue with Mystogia until around Penticost. Some people who have spouses that are already Catholic and have been exposed to Catholic teaching and Mass in our parish my do a RCIA Lite...depending on the Pastor.

One of the basic ideas of RCIA is to teach and build community. That is why you go throughout a period of time with a group. We don't do anything in the private home. We offer 2 classes per week so schedules are never a problem...or excuse. If you wish you can send me a private message and I can go into more depth.

Bless you,

Newby

TheGrowingGrape · #18 Jul 14, '04, 6:17 pm

Quote:

"... my advice would be to bypass the parish office or the RCIA coordinator at whatever parish you choose and go straight to the priest. "

I AGREE! The RCIA director at my parish taught us to genuflect (wearing a miniskirt) with the left knee and left hand (which is incorrect; its right hand and right knee). They also taught us that "God is in all things." I had catechised myself before RCIA, and I knew that "God is in all things" is heresy. It's pantheism. If that were true, then I could worship my coffee cup! They RCIA director left out one CRUCIAL word ... the correct statement should've been "God is present in all things inasmuch as He created them, and nothing more." The material world of God and the Divine nature of god are NOT one and the same. I felt the RCIA director was unqualified to teach RCIA, so I did everything on my own.

I was baptized Catholic when I was 8 months old, so I AM Catholic! The RCIA director told me I wasn't a real Catholic knowing this. She is WRONG. Redemptionis Sacramentum says that any baptised Catholic in state of Grace can recieve Holy Communion..

This is what I did: I researched and went to first confession on my own, and got permission from a priest to recieve Communion. He said it was OK to recieve Communion as long as I went to confession, and as long as I was baptised. I did First Communion on my own.

First Communion is not a special sacrament in and of itself. It's simply the first time you recieve Holy Communion in a state of grace. Same goes with First Confession. I was told this by a Franciscan Friar on St. Mikes Apologetics Q and A forum. I consulted with a professional on this!

I then did catechism on my own.

Also, the Rite of Welcoming, Rite of Initiation, Rite of Acceptance, Rite of Continuuing Conversion, Rite of Election are NOT sacraments, and are not necessary to be a Catholic. They are NOT found in any of the pre-Vatican II catechism texts. There are seven sacraments: Baptism, Confession, Holy Orders, Extreme Unction, Matrimony,Communion, and Confirmation ... and no more.

Also, you cannot ADD more sacraments to The Church, just as you cannot SUBTRACT sacraments from The Church.

TheGrowingGrape · #19 Jul 14, '04, 6:45 pm

If you REALLY want to know the Catholic faith, all you gotta do is goto Adoration one hour per week. Read your catechism books there. Read The Bible there. Learn to pray the Rosary there. Learn contemplation and meditation there. Seriously, it will convert yo FAST.

I learned my faith and was converted QUICKLY by doing my learning in the direct presence of God in the Eucharist at Adoration. In fact, I could say that I almost grew too quickly. It was powerful and overwhelming, but WONDERFUL!

I do agree that conversion is a lifelong, eternal process. Conversion never ends because God is Infinite. Even after you die, you STILL will never fully understand the Holy Trinity, because God is infinite.

Bonvivant · #20 Jul 14, '04, 6:50 pm

copland,

Remember this - no matter how good your RCIA class, it only scratches the surface. You can study the Bible, and attend Bible study classes, read and discuss apologetics on this board or any other forum, for a long time, and you'll still have alot to learn.

At times I thought our RCIA class lacked something too, but I realize that they cannot come on to heavy or they'll scare alot of people away, and if they come on to easy they'll disappoint people too.

So have patience with your class, classmates, and teachers and do some reading and studing on your own. You'll get by and have a rewarding expierence too.

Bill

Br. Rich SFO · #21 Jul 14, '04, 7:11 pm

And what you did was wrong Growing Grape.

There are poorly and even badly implemented RCIA processes in parishes. But that does not excuse one from following canonical requirements.

A person is not free to approach a Sacrament on their own without first requesting the Sacrament from the Church. That means that the pastor of the parish in which the person lives must grant his approval for a person to receive a Sacrament for the first time. Not just any priest but the Pastor of the persons parish.

Was your First Confession valid? yes more than likely. But something that would concern me would be was your First Holy Communion properly recorded in the Sacramental register? Was it forwarded to your Baptismal parish?

You don't mention your Confirmation?

"First Communion is not a special sacrament in and of itself. It's simply the first time you recieve Holy Communion in a state of grace. Same goes with First Confession. I was told this by a Franciscan Friar on St. Mikes Apologetics Q and A forum. I consulted with a professional on this!"

Theologically my Brother Franciscan was correct but however canonically he was incorrect. Anyone can Baptize and if you Baptize your infant in the kitchen sink with a witnesses. You can go over to the parish and request that the pastor record the Baptism in the parish register. The Baptism would be valid however Canon Law requires parents to present their children to the Church for Baptism. It prohibits anyone from Baptizing except in cases of emergency. The Baptism would be valid but illicit. Your Confession and First Communion was valid, but illicit.

"I then did catechism on my own."

There is nothing wrong with studying the Faith on your own.

"Also, the Rite of Welcoming, Rite of Initiation, Rite of Acceptance, Rite of Continuuing Conversion, Rite of Election are NOT sacraments, and are not necessary to be a Catholic."

That is correct they are not Sacraments but they are in a sense sacramentals. They are liturgical steps that have great meaning when prepared for and experienced properly. Could a Bishop take any man off the street Baptize if he is not already and Ordain him? Sure and the Ordination would be valid. However the Church has a liturgical path that should be followed. That man should receive training and formation, should be installed in the ministries of Lector and Acolyte, then be Ordained to the level of Deacon, and later to the level of priest. Because that is how the Church says it should be done. No one is free to create their own path to the Sacraments that are entrusted by Christ to His Church to administer.

"They are NOT found in any of the pre-Vatican II catechism texts."

They are not found there that is correct. But they are found in the practices of the Early centuries of the Church. They are not anything new to the Church.

Friend you have some serious authority issues to deal with. Many of us may not like the rules of the Church but we must obey them.

CatholicNerd · #22 Jul 14, '04, 9:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Br. Rich SFO

Your right. RCIA is intended for the Catechumenate and I always switch into Catechumenate mode when talking about the RCIA. A Candidate really does not belong in the RCIA process unless they were Baptized as a child and never catechized and know very little about the Christian Faith. Most really belong in a shorter "RCIA like" process, more specifically an adult Confirmation preparation.

That's what my experience was like. The RCIA class for the catechumens had been meeting since last August but I jumped in this past March at the last minute. It wasn't really so much for the instruction as it was to actually meet other converts. There were several other Lutherans that converted this year in the RCIA class and I'm so glad that I was able to meet them during the final stages of my journey.

copland · #23 Jul 15, '04, 6:12 am

TheGrowingGrape,

Quote:

you REALLY want to know the Catholic faith, all you gotta do is goto Adoration one hour per week. Read your catechism books there. Read The Bible there. Learn to pray the Rosary there. Learn contemplation and meditation there. Seriously, it will convert yo FAST

When does the adoration take place and where? I have heard someone else say the same thing. This sounds like something I would like to do.

Br. Rich SFO · #24 Jul 15, '04, 6:44 am

Spending time in Adoration is a great thing to do. You can do it at any Catholic Church. Some churches have the Blessed Sacrament exposed for Adoration. However it is the same Christ that is in the tabernacle of every Catholic Church. So sitting in a Church near the tabernacle is also just fine.

Something to remember though is that Adoration should be a time "With Christ" in prayer, reflection and just listening.

Someone described it as this when we lug in a box of books with us.

It's like inviting a good friend over and while sitting around the kitchen table you ignore their presence and instead sit there across the table and read a book about them. I can just hear Christ say "Don't read that book about me, talk to me, listen to me, I'm here!"

Many people must "DO" something when at Adoration and just can't sit there and be with Christ. If that is the case the Bible would be the best choice of book.

oldsinnner · #25 Oct 17, '09, 3:56 am

I started the RCIA classes this year and find them very enlightening and comforting. There are several 'teachers' that are trained catechists and often the priest is there, if only for the 1st hour.

Before inquiring about the classes I had read the first part of the catechism 'the profession of the faith' and that was PART of what made me decide to convert but also reading some catholic writers, I had gone through a lengthy illness and treatment and had an epiphany. I had always had difficulty with guilt and resentments. But one evening I had the realization, and it wasn't JUST a realization, it was more than that....that people are simply imperfect and so am I and the only answer is forgiveness. Forgiveness of myself and to forgive those who I had all this resentment towards. Then I began to pray and seek healing and help. Not for my physical illness, but for the illness of my character. Somehow so many things became understood to me that I cannot explain and I prayed to Jesus and told him that I was sorry and to help me.

I had not considered converting or really even going to church but I kept driving by the local Catholic church and went to their website. I didn't even know what RCIA classes were. Had no idea how to convert to Catholicism. I called them, I had an interview and the rest is history.

I too had some 'problems' on occassion with the accuracy of some things the teachers said and I knew they were wrong because it was in the Catechism. We were told to put it down, if we were reading it, for now. So...I picked up and started reading 'the concise History of the Catholic Church' and every once in a while, there would be an error in the class and it kind of bothered me at first but it is not my place to 'educate' the catechist so I let it be. I"m a voracious reader so I figure I'll learn it all eventually...well not ALL since I don't think one can, or few can.

But, for me, my overall goal is to repair my character and become a better person. Getting into pissing contests with the catechist isn't part of that plan and often times it's over a minor thing anyway, such as the early history of the church or Rome. The RCiA classes aren't seminary school as I see it. They aren't phd's in theology teaching the classes and neither am I so I'm not really in a position to be 'calling them out' and have no desire to. I appreciate all of their help and knowledge, knowing that they aren't perfect. It's not like Thomas Acquinas has come back from the dead and is teaching the class.

I am grateful the classes exist and have found them immensly helpful.

fdesales · #26 Oct 23, '09, 6:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by copland

I wonder exactly how it will be handled when I do get going with my conversion to the Catholic Church. I have been baptized in a Southern Baptist Church, and have even preached and taught for about 7 years. But now, I have been studying the Catechism for about 7 months on my own and have absolutely no doubts that the Catholic Church is the real deal. Most of every question I have ever had about Cathlicism I have researched it on my own on good Catholic web sites or books. My desire to be Cathoic has been a well thought out journey so far.

Ah, well, as an RCIA Coordinator, I can tell you that you do not even HAVE to go through the RCIA. It is meant for the non-baptized and those who are unchatechized - and it sounds like you are quite aware of the Gospel! The only thing missing is the Sacramentality of Catholicism. Of course, you can opt to go through the longer process, but you can also ask the priest to be welcomed into the Church - tell him about your spiritual walk in Christ, and the fact that you have even preached and taught the faith. Ask if he can teach you personally some of the specifics of the faith that are uniquely Catholic, such as the Sacraments of Eucharist and Confession.

Now, I can tell you that one does not experience Christ in the Sacraments by lectures, even from a priest. One must go to Mass! Even if you opt not to go through RCIA (which can be useful even in your situation), I would strongly recommend you get a 'sponsor' that can guide you on some of what it means to be Catholic - things you don't learn in lectures. Join a Catholic ministry and you will become immersed in "Catholicism".

Good luck

crazzeto · #27 Oct 23, '09, 7:08 am

It should be a good experience for you. I haven't personally walked that journey my self as I'm a cradle Catholic, but my Fiance is right now, and I"m attending with her to support her as well as I'm interested in sponcering.

Since you're looking at being catechised as an adult, I would say do out of class homework to make sure you fully understand anything beind discussed, but also to be able to catch what might be, or might sound like error someone might teach should it happen. I'm not suggesting such a thing is common, but hey things happen.

One example is, unless you were paying close attention at one of the recent RCIA classes, and really thought about what one of our instructors was saying you might have been mislead into believeing that the Catholic Church teaches a doctrine of salvation through works alone.

The reason is because he was discussing a Jewish (ethnic) athiest who does leave a good life, but obviously completely lacks faith. He told the class that the Catholic Church teaches that he could go to heaven, but there was a subtle qualifier one might very easily miss. And that was "because we don't know if he won't fully embrase faith as he nears the end of his life, and we don't know if, perhaps, Christ might come to him in his final moments and give him a chance to embrase faith". If you missed that (since he stated it way more susinctly it would have been easy) then you would think "huh, doctrine of works". If you fully take into account everything said, then you realize "well no, he's just saying you don't know whether or not he might at the last possible moment obtain the required faith".

So anyway, just pay attention, do some homework, relax, have fun (you will) and I think you should probably walk away with a very positive experience.

fdesales · #28 Oct 26, '09, 6:07 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazzeto

One example is, unless you were paying close attention at one of the recent RCIA classes, and really thought about what one of our instructors was saying you might have been mislead into believeing that the Catholic Church teaches a doctrine of salvation through works alone.

The reason is because he was discussing a Jewish (ethnic) athiest who does leave a good life, but obviously completely lacks faith. He told the class that the Catholic Church teaches that he could go to heaven, but there was a subtle qualifier one might very easily miss. And that was "because we don't know if he won't fully embrase faith as he nears the end of his life, and we don't know if, perhaps, Christ might come to him in his final moments and give him a chance to embrase faith".

I am not sure how this explanation is a "doctrine of works", my friend. Accepting Christ at the end of one's life is saving grace, not the "good life" he led before the end of his life. Leading the "good life" does not mean that this brought Christ at the end of the man's life. God calls us regardless of our status of sin (Romans 5). The point the instructor is making, I believe, is that we should not judge whether a person is going to heaven or hell because they are "atheist" today, since we do not know whether a person will accept the Lord, even at the end of their life. Recall the parable of the man who went to hire men to work the field and collected workers throughout the day. The men who worked one hour received the same wages. Clearly, the point is that Catholic teaching emulates this - that one can be saved for eternal heaven even at the last moments of life.

I do not see how this is "salvation by works", perhaps you could explain that?

Regards

crazzeto · #29 Oct 26, '09, 6:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdesales

I am not sure how this explanation is a "doctrine of works", my friend. Accepting Christ at the end of one's life is saving grace, not the "good life" he led before the end of his life. Leading the "good life" does not mean that this brought Christ at the end of the man's life. God calls us regardless of our status of sin (Romans 5). The point the instructor is making, I believe, is that we should not judge whether a person is going to heaven or hell because they are "atheist" today, since we do not know whether a person will accept the Lord, even at the end of their life. Recall the parable of the man who went to hire men to work the field and collected workers throughout the day. The men who worked one hour received the same wages. Clearly, the point is that Catholic teaching emulates this - that one can be saved for eternal heaven even at the last moments of life.

I do not see how this is "salvation by works", perhaps you could explain that?

Regards

You have to take in the whole post, I said that it sounded like a doctrain of works until you fully consider all that he's saying. In the end, it wasn't that, however if you weren't paying full attention (and I think many people may have been confused, I very nearly was and I alreayd knew the doctrine).

If you didn't get the part about Christ coming to the person near the end, and the person accepting the faith then, then it becomes a doctrine of works. If what you got out of what he was saying was that "since the aithest lived a good life, he'll go to heaven anyway even though he's an athiest with no faith" then it becomes a doctrine of works. The problem was, if you were in the room you would know he was speaking very softly, and in manner which would make it easy to get just that out of it, if you weren't completely paying attention.

fdesales · #30 Oct 26, '09, 6:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazzeto

You have to take in the whole post, I said that it sounded like a doctrain of works until you fully consider all that he's saying. In the end, it wasn't that, however if you weren't paying full attention (and I think many people may have been confused, I very nearly was and I alreayd knew the doctrine).

No doubt, you were in a better position to judge what was happening than I. I am just trying to understand your interpretation based on what you wrote...

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazzeto

If you didn't get the part about Christ coming to the person near the end, and the person accepting the faith then, then it becomes a doctrine of works. If what you got out of what he was saying was that "since the aithest lived a good life, he'll go to heaven anyway even though he's an athiest with no faith" then it becomes a doctrine of works.

I see what you are saying now. If you take part of what he said out of context, one could believe that Catholics teach "works salvation". As an instructor, I realize that we must tread very carefully on this subject, since we are accused of it by our separated brothers in Christ. Taken in the entire context, I don't see a "works salvation", since he stresses at the end that he is saved by faith by accepting Christ, despite being an atheist (most Christians do not believe that 'being good" while remaining an atheist is sufficient in any way in God's eyes). But taking part of what he said, I can understand your point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazzeto

The problem was, if you were in the room you would know he was speaking very softly, and in manner which would make it easy to get just that out of it, if you weren't completely paying attention.

This is why summarizing and repeating main points is important. If part 'a' was all I heard, I think asking for clarification would be worthwhile, especially if one was a knowledgeable Christian already.

Regards