Pope's Katrina envoy: 'Shameful' poverty in U.S.

[Peace-bwu]

come from a largely white impoverished part of northern Apalachia. I went to the most impoverished high school in Ohio. There were kids living in chicken coops. Seriously. My dad grew up in poverty, but had parents who were able to take care of him.

He was determined to get the best education and job possible and he succeeded. He decided when I was in 8th grade to move back there so that we could grow up where he did.

The thing that bothers me the most is that there were very few adults motivated at the school to try to help students find scholarships, and encourage them in their after highschool choices. So many of my classmates still live there, many of them still in poverty. There were many kids who wanted to continue their education and i only found out a few years ago how many scholarships and grants were available for us. The school has been in academic probation for the past few years, and when I was there, the kids who felt driven to change their lives were not given the help they needed to find the money that was allotted for them in special government programs. The majority of kids who were successful in college had parents who helped them. Some of the most successful kids from my class and the immediate grades above and below mine, were kids who entered the military.

I am often haunted with the memory of a girl in my gym class who was often made fun of by some of the mean kids. She was dirty and very poor but always tried really hard in her business classes (at our school we had 3 levels of courses to choose from: General, Business, and College Prep)

I was always friendly toward her, as were some of the other girls in my class. She approached a few of us once after gym class and asked us if we could help her get some deodorant, soap, toothbrush and paste and maybe some clothes. She asked if college prep classes were that hard because she really wanted to go to college. It tried to encourage her to take college prep classes. I was 15 at the time. I know a few of us were able to get her some toiletries, etc. but we didnt' have the means to help her on the large scale that she needed because our families were also struggling to make ends meet. It haunts me, I always wish I had the sense at 15 that I do now, and had been able to find more ways to help her. There are millions of kids just like her, who want to change their lives so they don't have to live in poverty. Both my husband's parents and mine grew up in what could be called impoverished contitions. My mom had the most opportunity because she lived in a shack by the railroad tracks but was able to go to a Catholic school with her 5 siblings. She says they didnt' have to pay tuition. Her parents (my grandparents) were both orphans.

I am posting this to show that the problem is much bigger than inner cities and the reasons for povety go much deeper than race.

[Peace-bwu]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Petergee

. It's not only Europe that's shocked at your dismal failure to support your own people, it's the whole world. It's not only Europe that has "socialized medicine" as you call it, it's EVERY country which is rich or even semi-rich, with the single exception of the USA. Australia is the same size as the continental USA, with the most heterogeneous population in the world, AND a federation of States, and we manage to give everyone medical care and help the poor when they need it without much problem. Most large countries (Germany, Canada etc) are also federations. Your post is a litany of non-excuses

Don't you think that we Americans are upset that our system failed at all levels? I always assumed that New Orleans had a well- planned evacuation and emergency system, because this scenario has always been possible.

Our hurricanes have always been able to be handled by the state first -responders then with the Fed government coming in a few days later to give resources necessary to rebuild. Hurricanes hit Floirda all the time and the evacuation and aid work like a well oiled machine. I think that the local and state govt. were unwilling to spend the money on using busses to evacuate the poor who didn't have transportation out of there. They were afraid to spend the money on a false alarm. They were gambling with the lives of thousands of citizens.

Now we know that we need to change our emergency system, that the Fed Govt should be able to step in with military force to help people. Our country is extremely cautious with marshall law.

I think the US needs to use this tragedy, which was made much worse by the systemic weaknesses in government(all levels) and social structures which it exposed, to take a good hard look at itself and abandon the "every man for himself" ultra-individualism which it has taken such false pride in. Just like your president Roosevelt launched the New Deal during the Great Depression, but renewal is needed on a much bigger scale from the ground up.

The individualism isn't always a bad thing, and we already have safety nets for poverty. The biggest problem in New Orleans is that our regular system failed. Our separation of State local and fed govt. usually works ok, but this time the problem was too big for the state and local governemnt to handle, especially since they failed to prepare adequately.

It is also important to understand the mentality of the gulf coast people. I lived on the FL panhandle for 5 years and went through Opal (cat 3-4) and we were unable to evacuate in time. After 5 years of evacuating for hurricanes that fizzled out, I started feeling like it was a waste of time. Hurricane party! When the govt. gives a mandatory evacuation, they don't go house to house with guns forcing people out. People choose to stay for many reasons. Unfortunately the N.O local and state govt didn't use mass transportation to get all the poor people who depend on public transportation, out of there.

This time our separation of levels of govt. worked very much against us.

I agree that in America there is alot of pride, pride is forced down our throats by a culture of death, Pride is no longer viewed as a deadly sin. I also think that our government aid "socialist-type" programs don't work perfectly because they make people dependant on the system without giving them enough ways to know their own dignity and worth. We can only get that from God, and since the govt. is not permitted to do this, our religious communities need to step up to the plate in larger numbers. The Catholic Church needs to make real Catholic schools a priority, affordable to every Child who wants to attend.

None of this should be overly shocking, if we can't protect the weakest among us, our unborn children and severely disabled or ill, from abortion and euthanasia, how can we not know that the devaluing of life will extend to us all from the weakest on up? It starts with the unborn and infirm and goes on up to children, impoverished and unwanted.

Individualism isn't a problem when you have God, protection of life, liberty and persuit of happiness. Materialism and moral relativity is eating away at us. Is it fun to kick us while we are down? Your post seems rather scoffing and angry. Especially here:

Oh no, please don't start on the "they don't understand us because we're so special" routine again. It's not only Europe that's shocked at your dismal failure to support your own people, it's the whole world. It's not only Europe that has "socialized medicine" as you call it, it's EVERY country which is rich or even semi-rich, with the single exception of the USA...Your post is a litany of non-excuses.
.

[Ani Ibi]

Originally Posted by Petergee

Oh no, please don't start on the "they don't understand us because we're so special" routine again. It's not only Europe that's shocked at your dismal failure to support your own people, it's the whole world...Most large countries (Germany, Canada etc) are also federations. Your post is a litany of non-excuses.

Canada has pockets of extreme poverty. Our politicians at every level of government have had one hand in the trough while people freeze to death on the street. We have outlying communities who have epidemics: epidemics of suicide.

[jman507]

Was the cardinal trying to get us in a fight who has more pride the US or Europe? NO system is perfect, there will be failures. That is why no nation must think of itself as self-sufficent. A lot of systems will be ok, if the people are prudent and don't overreach. If the officials exucute their job. Sometimes they do great sometime they fall short. Nor should any nation be envious of another nation, cause they can have their breakdowns too.

This should be a time of solidarity. One of those nations that people look to as the promised land, isn't quite there. Besides if anyone thought that, they'd be fooling themselves. We will all be on an exodus not til we get to the US or Europe, but to heaven. We need to know that we cannot always control everything, but God will be there for us. Perhaps there can be a little solidarity in this between a well to-do family that lost their whole business in home in New Orleans and a family in the third-world.

I cannot tell if the reporter decided to take a quote out of context to make an easier story to sell. But we must not put our faith in what we have, but in our Lord. All the things we have and all the help from neighbors or the government or whoever must be our stepping stone to love another and to God.

[TPJCatholic]

It is such a shock. Human beings, made by God, are living in the United States--how did that happen? Those same humans beings, it turns out, are not perfect...hmmm, go figure. Those same people have built a culture and government that is not perfect, now how could that happen?

Pleeeeeease folks, the United States is quite far from perfect, there is nothing on earth (other than Christ of course) that is perfect. However, the United States has been incredibly efficient over the long haul at responding to emergencies throughout the world. The nature and depth of this disaster caught us by surprise...I don't see how that becomes a condemnation of the entire country and its systems. Give this nation a few years and see how it responds.

God gave people freedom and the United States remains the home of the free--period, out!

[Petergee]

I ‘m not denying that everyone makes mistakes and I certainly didn’t mean to sound scoffing, much less kick you while you’re down. I was just pointing out that you can’t say the failure happened just because you’re a large country or because you have a federal system. Most of the stranded people DIDN’T need to be forced out at gunpoint, they desperately wanted to leave. It was symptomatic of the individualist culture that nobody bothered to provide transport for those who couldn’t provide their own, even after it became obvious it was desperately needed. The government structure is not the problem, it’s the culture.

And providing adequately for the poor and disadvantaged would not make you any less "free".

[jman507]

Oh come on.

Look there are problems with the inherently in the government structure, like any government structure. There was problems with exucution. There are a large number of factors that made the aftermath as bad as it was, and also there was a lot of factors that helped to not make it worse. Yes there are problems with the culture, any culture with us sinners will have problems. But let us not forget this was a catastrophic storm.

It is a huge undertaking to evacuate a whole city much less a whole region. For some it's pretty easy hop in the car and go. Others would have to wait around for the bus. Still yet others are in very little condition to go. I don't see too many cities practicing a 48 hour evacution of a whole city of everyone.

Things happen the best you can do is to learn what went wrong, what you can do better, and prepare for the next time. It is always easy for others to say they would do a better job, but I say pray that you don't have to undergo the test. Even if you have a good plan, one dynamic of the disaster might easily bust it up.

[estesbob]

Originally Posted by gilliam

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope Benedict XVI's envoy to the United States to bring aid for Hurricane Katrina's victims said Saturday that many of them have been struck by "shameful" poverty in "rich America."

The German-born Archbishop Paul Cordes, who heads the Vatican's charity organization, traveled to Louisiana and Mississippi last week to express the pontiff's solidarity with the victims as well as bring aid.

He said that Catholic Charities had allocated $6 million (euro4.9 million). "Many were struck by ... poverty, at times shameful, in rich America," Cordes told Vatican Radio.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/17/kat....ap/index.html


This is something the President talked about in his speach. New Orleans needs more than rebuilding of buildings, it needs to seriously address the poverty in the city.

Agreed- it is terrible the damnage caused by 40 plus years of demcorat control of congress caused. Even today the fight tooth and nail any proposal that would truly help the poor-after all if the poverty level dropped there base would erode.

For example

Public edcuation in the inner cities is a disaster. The Democrats solution:

Force children to stay in substandard schools . To offset the substandard education by forcing schools to promote them regardless of their grades and then forcing colleges to admit them whether they are qualified or not. They of course flunk out at an alarming rate-at which point the Democrats step in with substandard housing and a handout-all designed to make sure they remain poor and stupid and continue to vote Demcorat

[shannin]

It seems to me that there is enough money being raised by various charities. Oprah's Angel Network just raised 1 million; the Vatican contributed milliions, Red Cross donations and many many Protestant charities have donated millions & millions. My small parish alone raised $7,000. And yet, I see on t.v. that the victims haven't received much help yet. They say they need money.

What I want to know is where all this charity money goes. Is there one central agency that is handling all of it and why isn't it getting to these people?

If i had to choose one person to be in charge of the distribution of all the money that's been raised for charity it would be Oprah. She'd make sure it got in the hands of the ones that truly need it.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by TPJCatholic

It is such a shock. Human beings, made by God, are living in the United States--how did that happen? Those same humans beings, it turns out, are not perfect...hmmm, go figure. Those same people have built a culture and government that is not perfect, now how could that happen?

Pleeeeeease folks, the United States is quite far from perfect, there is nothing on earth (other than Christ of course) that is perfect. However, the United States has been incredibly efficient over the long haul at responding to emergencies throughout the world. The nature and depth of this disaster caught us by surprise...I don't see how that becomes a condemnation of the entire country and its systems. Give this nation a few years and see how it responds.

God gave people freedom and the United States remains the home of the free--period, out!

Yes.

Freedom does not guarantee not being poor. There has been poverty in every society that ever was. They will always be among us. We are to reach out to them. However, no matter how much we reach out to them, they will not vanish. They will always exist.

The utopia world of kumbya and no war or poverty has not and will not ever exist until the new heavens and the new earth under the lordship of Jesus Christ. And this will be because sin will be no more.

So... if we want to lessen poverty..... let's lessen sin.

[jman507]

Originally Posted by shannin

It seems to me that there is enough money being raised by various charities. Oprah's Angel Network just raised 1 million; the Vatican contributed milliions, Red Cross donations and many many Protestant charities have donated millions & millions. My small parish alone raised $7,000. And yet, I see on t.v. that the victims haven't received much help yet. They say they need money.

What I want to know is where all this charity money goes. Is there one central agency that is handling all of it and why isn't it getting to these people?

If i had to choose one person to be in charge of the distribution of all the money that's been raised for charity it would be Oprah. She'd make sure it got in the hands of the ones that truly need it.

As they like to say the media doesn't like to carry the story where things are going as they should. If you take a thousand people, and they are all getting aid except for a pocket of 5, the media is probably going to focus on the 5. I'm sure some of it is mistakes, but don't discount that this was a large storm and affected a large area and a large abount of people. Plus those that truely need the aid are probably in places where it is hardest to get the aid, otherwise they probably wouldn't be lacking.

[Traditional Ang]

Originally Posted by Ani Ibi

I believe that God has once again shown us that we ask for too little. In his Hand is more than we could ever hope for, more than we could ever conceiving of asking for.

By the way, why do folks call New Orleans the Crescent City?

Ani:

I think that's been said a few times before... We should ask for the whole world to be saved and all to know God.

New orleans is called "The Crescent City" because the original city was formed on a crescent shaped piece of high ground formed by the Mississippi River over the Millenia.

If you look at the old maps that were posted here a couple of weeks ago, you'll see a series of bends in the Mississippi that formed an elbow or crescent where the oldest part of NO (the "French Quarter") was built.

I hope this answers the question in case no one else has.

In Christ, Michael

[Traditional Ang]

Petergee:

Many of the countries in Europe are in serious financial and economic straits because of those social programs. Some have adapted laws allowing Euthansia and Assisted Suicide and others are considering these laws because of the financial pressures of taking care of the terminally and seriously ill.

The only countries that are fiscally sound are those such as Norway which are exporters of a product everyone needs (Natural Gas - They have a gigantic deposit), or countries such as Sweden which have scrapped their social welfare and medical systems (they did that in the early '90's)....

Originally Posted by Petergee

Oh no, please don't start on the "they don't understand us because we're so special" routine again. It's not only Europe that's shocked at your dismal failure to support your own people, it's the whole world. It's not only Europe that has "socialized medicine" as you call it, it's EVERY country which is rich or even semi-rich, with the single exception of the USA. Australia is the same size as the continental USA, with the most heterogeneous population in the world, AND a federation of States, and we manage to give everyone medical care and help the poor when they need it without much problem. Most large countries (Germany, Canada etc) are also federations. Your post is a litany of non-excuses.

...This has all happened in countries whose defense and security needs have ben taken care of by the USA.

Europe couldn't deal with the crisis in the Balkans, which was right in Europe - They had to call on "Uncle Sam" to handle Slobodon Milosovic. At the same time, many of the countries within the EU did everything they could to undermine the Sanctions Regime against Saddam Hussein which they had called for as the alternative to deposing that vicious mass murderer in 1991.

So, I don't think they can understand a country that confronts people like Milosovic, Hussein and Adolf Hitler rather than appeasing them...

Originally Posted by Petergee

I think the US needs to use this tragedy, which was made much worse by the systemic weaknesses in government(all levels) and social structures which it exposed, to take a good hard look at itself and abandon the "every man for himself" ultra-individualism which it has taken such false pride in. Just like your president Roosevelt launched the New Deal during the Great Depression, but renewal is needed on a much bigger scale from the ground up.

...Petergee, the USA was never "Ultra Individualist" as you state, but Alexis de Toqueville said that the American way of thinking and doing things was what provided the opportunity that caused people to come to the USA from 1/2 a world away.

If America was "Every man for himself", then how come over 400 firefighters, police officers and Port Authority officers gave their lives trying to get people out of the Twin Towers they knew were going to collapse on them? Then why did Rick Rescorla go back into the WTC to try to save more lives after he had gotten his employers' people out? Why did he risk that when he knew the Tower could go at any minute?

If America was "Every man for himself", why did PFC David Levy carry his buddy for most of the Baatan Death March, at the risk of being bayonetted by the Japanese? and, Why did the rest of his company do whatever it took to hide this from the Japanese at the risk of all being horribly slaughtered?

America is definitely a flawed country, but I don't think you have any idea what makes Americans do what we do and for whom we do it.

The situation in LA and NO was unique - The State and Local government failed at just about everything a government can fail at in a situation such as this.

Do I wish the State and Local Officials had done their jobs like those in FL have during the last 4 Hurricanes to hit FL (2004 - FL was hit by 4 Major Hurricanes)? You bet?

Do I wish the Levee System around New Orleans had been designed for a Category 5 Storm and for a Surge from Lake Parchartrain? You bet!

Given the history of the American South that I've tried to tell you about, the normal remedy (invoking the Insurrection Act and taking over as soon as it looked as if the officials hadn't a clue) wasn't available to President Bush.

Do I wish Southerners could learn to put away their hurt feelings in situations such as this so the President can use all the needed tools? You bet!

The the fact that none of these happened as both of us wish is NOT evidence that America needs systematic reform, esp. since FL has been hit by MULTIPLE Hurricanes since Andrew in 1992, and has handled them such that you haven't heard about them!

Petergee, if you are using Scripture to say that the American Government should be helping the poor, please note that Scripture is written to the Church. If the poor aren't being taken care of, that's not the government's problem... That's the Church's problem, and we have NO right to fob this job off on unbelievers.

In Christ, Michael

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by Petergee

I ‘m not denying that everyone makes mistakes and I certainly didn’t mean to sound scoffing, much less kick you while you’re down. I was just pointing out that you can’t say the failure happened just because you’re a large country or because you have a federal system. Most of the stranded people DIDN’T need to be forced out at gunpoint, they desperately wanted to leave. It was symptomatic of the individualist culture that nobody bothered to provide transport for those who couldn’t provide their own, even after it became obvious it was desperately needed. The government structure is not the problem, it’s the culture.

And providing adequately for the poor and disadvantaged would not make you any less "free".

Respectfully, the poor evacuation of New Orleans had nothing to do with "individualistic culture". There were a lot of people who helped their neighbors, but the local/state governments did not do a good job enacting the evacuation.

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by Petergee

Australia is the same size as the continental USA, with the most heterogeneous population in the world

By "same size", you mean land mass, of course. I don't think land mass has a lot of impact on an economic system. Our largest state is Alaska, and I don't think it's economy has the same issues as California.

Are you sure Australia has the most heterogeneous population, or are you just saying it's very diverse.