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  #1  
Old Mar 24, '13, 8:01 pm
filter2700 filter2700 is offline
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Default History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

As I was watching this scene, I thought, "here it comes, we're going to see how they portray one of the most critical messages Jesus told his apostles." If you haven't seen the newest episode tonight, basically during the last supper Jesus tells his apostles to "remember me by doing this," and I want to know if this wording is misleading and conveys a message that isn't what us Catholics would accept as totally true, since there were non-Catholics who helped "verify" the "accuracy" of the TV show.

Here's a little background, the show was produced/created by Roma Downey and Mark Burnett, who are a married Catholic couple of film makers. One would think they would consult Catholic theologians for guidance, but it seems they consulted more non-Catholics than Catholics at all.

Quote:
Researchers and theologians were asked to verify accuracy. Academic consultants included Craig A. Evans, Helen Bond, Paula Gooder, Mark Goodacre and Candida Moss. Shooting took place in Morocco and elsewhere.

Burnett and Downey consulted "a wide range of pastors and academics," including their friend Joel Osteen, Joshua Garroway (a rabbi from Hebrew Union College), and a Catholic cardinal. Geoff Tunnicliffe of the World Evangelical Alliance, read each episode's script and visited the set in Morocco: he "wanted to be sure that the final edits would hold together as a singular thematic message throughout the entire series" and "was not disappointed."
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_%28TV_series%29

Now I don't know who all of these "theologians" are, but it seems most of them are non-Catholic, therefore by consulting these "experts" the show could have easily been portrayed with a non-Catholic view, and I think one way to conclude whether or not this show portrays a non-Catholic view is to figure out what they meant by using wording I haven't really heard before. Ultimately though it doesn't matter, because I know the truth that Catholicism is correct, but I'm just curious as to whether or not this show is actually accurately depicting the last supper and what Jesus actually meant.

So in the scene Jesus says to his apostles:

"Remember me by doing this."

I can't find scripture that actually says that, to the contrary, the scripture I've found says something that is different and is what I've heard all my life, "do this in memory of me."

There is no interpretation that says "remember me by doing this" http://bible.cc/luke/22-19.htm. So right off the bat, isn't this inaccurate for them to make Jesus' character say this? Or is it the same thing?

Basically, I want to know, is the way they made Jesus say "remember me by doing this" the same as "do this in memory of me?"

Because the wording they use sounds like it gives a different message than what Jesus actually meant, it sounds they made Jesus' character say "do this once to remember me," because the "remember me by doing this" sounds like they're trying to downplay the importance of what he really said (which was do this in memory of me). Using this wording sounds like they want to convey the idea that Jesus just meant "only eat this tonight to remember me." It sounds like they wanted him to be specifically referring to that night ONLY, and not in the future; thats what I'm basically trying to get at, its kind of hard to explain.

"Do this in memory of me" sounds like Jesus was telling his apostles to do this frequently, to continue to be in communion with him in the future. He doesn't say "do this once to remember me," he leaves it open and says "do this in memory of me," which as Catholics we know this means to continue to be in communion with God by consuming the Eucharist.

Is there a difference in the wording here? Am I analyzing this too deeply? Or do you think my suspicions are right since they used this odd wording, this can only mean they want to portray some non-Catholic point of view, but only if there is a difference in the wording.
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Old Mar 24, '13, 8:15 pm
brb3 brb3 is offline
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

It was a travesty ...very poorly done, and not c/w scriptures. Blame it on Candida Moss....she has her own agenda , to marginalize scripture and Church history.
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Old Mar 24, '13, 9:43 pm
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

Like I said, nothing good can come from the History Channel.
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  #4  
Old Mar 24, '13, 11:04 pm
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

I thought someone pointed out that while both may be Catholic on paper or in the past, they were married by Downey's co-star from "touched by an Angel" after being married and divorced more than once. I did see her interviewed outside St. Patricks in NY on the Papel election and I don't want to make assumptions on where they are with in their relationship and attendance in the Catholic Church but it doesn't seem like their purpose was to make a Bible miniseries true to the Catholic understanding.
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Old Mar 24, '13, 11:12 pm
VeritasLuxMea VeritasLuxMea is offline
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

I see very little difference between the two phrases. Half of those translations have, "Do this to remember me." I think you are wayyyyyyyyyyy overthinking this.

"Remember me by doing this," === "Do this to remember me."

In either wording, you can interpret it in two ways, IMO. Both of them leave open the idea that the remembrance will occur after the fact because of this one act that is happening in the present. Both of them leave open the idea that you can do this in the future for that reason.

Furthermore, I mean... what exactly do you think the agenda is here? Many (if not most) of the Protestant sects re-create the last supper as well. The disagreement is usually whether the Eucharist is actually the body of the Christ, or if it's more symbolic. But it's not like Protestants are all trying to stop people from re-creating the last supper. So I don't know what you think the agenda behind this would be...
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Old Mar 25, '13, 5:09 am
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

I didn't see it--but, I am more curious about Jesus' words before that--in the show, did they have Jesus say:

"...this is my body...this is the blood of the New Covenant", or did they mutilate that too, and water it down to something like:

"...pretend this is like my body--symbolic..."?
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Old Mar 25, '13, 6:01 am
brb3 brb3 is offline
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

After watching 3 of the 2 hr. segments......its been very disappointing overall. A few interesting characters.....most very boring. Most are depicted as timid, unsure of themselves, ...even Christ -- depicted as mainly a man, ...not the Superstar he is !!
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  #8  
Old Mar 25, '13, 10:10 am
filter2700 filter2700 is offline
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

I don't remember what was said before that, but I'm sure the episode will rerun tonight and if it does I'll check out that scene again and write down exactly what "Jesus" says.

I just think they want to portray a protestant/non-Catholic/non-Orthodox point of view, and frankly their view of the last supper/Eucharist is a false interpretation (not in the TV show, but their beliefs in general). Jesus confirmed his apostles what he meant, they even questioned him and some ran away when he told them to "eat him," so one would think he would clear this up and say "oh no I don't mean actually eat me, just eat bread," but thats silly because what would be the point of eating bread if it wasn't to "eat" Jesus and be in communion with him?! I don't have to preach to you guys since you know this, but its really pathetic most are arrogant rather than humble, rather than be willing to change their views for the truth, they are simply in denial.

Basically it bugs me that protestants/non-Catholics are so ignorant of the truth, and they go to such means of distortion to skew the truth of what Jesus said and meant. They are lying to themselves, they are deceiving themselves by intentionally misinterpreting what Jesus said and thinking he didn't actually want his followers to "eat" him.

I really despise those who skew the truth and twist it around, and thats what non-Catholics do in order to support their specific doctrine, its just silly. They might believe Jesus existed, and that he died for our sins (I don't "hate" non-Catholics for denying the Eucharist, but it is very frustrating how people can be so ignorant), but to act as if they're perfect and since there was some corruption in the Church (due to the fallibility of men, nothing to do with the church's infallibility at all) so therefore the Church and some of its teachings are false (especially the Eucharist) is completely irrational and simply untrue.

I don't know if they have some agenda, but since they consulted mostly non-Catholics to "verify" the "accuracy" of this show it just proves there is probably more of a non-Catholic view of what Jesus meant during the last supper. And this view is false (that he didn't want his followers to eat him), therefore they are not telling the truth of what really happened, and this is deceptive. Thats my problem with it. They genuinely believe they are right though and are not willing to change their minds, but this is pride rather than humbleness. One who is humble admits he/she is wrong, and most of the non-Catholics I met are good people, but very arrogant when it comes to their actual beliefs.
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Old Mar 25, '13, 10:21 am
WildeKurt WildeKurt is offline
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

Quote:
I didn't see it--but, I am more curious about Jesus' words before that--in the show, did they have Jesus say:

"...this is my body...this is the blood of the New Covenant", or did they mutilate that too, and water it down to something like:

"...pretend this is like my body--symbolic..."?
I watch for this carefully and it was: "This is my body." However, the whole scene was fairly dissapointing. I guess there wasn't enough sword play for them to use too much film on the subject.

As a whole, the series kind of reminds me of a childrens bible we have for very young kids. It just covers major points in a matter of pages by combining and paraphrasing large sections. I've found it entertaining if for nothing else than as a way to compare what I know from what I think I know.
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Old Mar 25, '13, 10:47 am
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

I think we need to keep in mind that this is a miniseries. They can't possibly put everything that happened in a couple of shows. If they left something out they showed to put in something they didn't show, people would still complain.
Also, of course what ever their religious view is will shine through. If you want the Catholic view, talk to a Catholic who has the money to make a TV series.
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  #11  
Old Mar 25, '13, 12:35 pm
MarkInOregon MarkInOregon is offline
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

Quote:
Originally Posted by filter2700 View Post
As I was watching this scene, I thought, "here it comes, we're going to see how they portray one of the most critical messages Jesus told his apostles." If you haven't seen the newest episode tonight, basically during the last supper Jesus tells his apostles to "remember me by doing this," and I want to know if this wording is misleading and conveys a message that isn't what us Catholics would accept as totally true, since there were non-Catholics who helped "verify" the "accuracy" of the TV show.

Here's a little background, the show was produced/created by Roma Downey and Mark Burnett, who are a married Catholic couple of film makers. One would think they would consult Catholic theologians for guidance, but it seems they consulted more non-Catholics than Catholics at all.


- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_%28TV_series%29

Now I don't know who all of these "theologians" are, but it seems most of them are non-Catholic, therefore by consulting these "experts" the show could have easily been portrayed with a non-Catholic view, and I think one way to conclude whether or not this show portrays a non-Catholic view is to figure out what they meant by using wording I haven't really heard before. Ultimately though it doesn't matter, because I know the truth that Catholicism is correct, but I'm just curious as to whether or not this show is actually accurately depicting the last supper and what Jesus actually meant.

So in the scene Jesus says to his apostles:

"Remember me by doing this."

I can't find scripture that actually says that, to the contrary, the scripture I've found says something that is different and is what I've heard all my life, "do this in memory of me."

There is no interpretation that says "remember me by doing this" http://bible.cc/luke/22-19.htm. So right off the bat, isn't this inaccurate for them to make Jesus' character say this? Or is it the same thing?

Basically, I want to know, is the way they made Jesus say "remember me by doing this" the same as "do this in memory of me?"

Because the wording they use sounds like it gives a different message than what Jesus actually meant, it sounds they made Jesus' character say "do this once to remember me," because the "remember me by doing this" sounds like they're trying to downplay the importance of what he really said (which was do this in memory of me). Using this wording sounds like they want to convey the idea that Jesus just meant "only eat this tonight to remember me." It sounds like they wanted him to be specifically referring to that night ONLY, and not in the future; thats what I'm basically trying to get at, its kind of hard to explain.

"Do this in memory of me" sounds like Jesus was telling his apostles to do this frequently, to continue to be in communion with him in the future. He doesn't say "do this once to remember me," he leaves it open and says "do this in memory of me," which as Catholics we know this means to continue to be in communion with God by consuming the Eucharist.

Is there a difference in the wording here? Am I analyzing this too deeply? Or do you think my suspicions are right since they used this odd wording, this can only mean they want to portray some non-Catholic point of view, but only if there is a difference in the wording.
I have not yet watched the episode, but I don't see a huge difference betweent the two--and I think you have to be looking and waiting for it--to see a big difference. "Do this is memory of me" contrary to your reading I see know greater command with reqard to frequency to celebrate the Eucharist in his memory than I do in the phrase "remember me by doing this". I'm not sure how doing something in memory of Christ--commands me to do it often but the command to do something to remember Christ --implies doing it only once? You have a command to do this in the memory of Christ--isn't that essentially the same thing as a command to remember Christ by doing this? With the this in both cases being the Eucharist. I just don't see how the two phrases really say anything different.

I'd want to see the whole scene and who it was presented--I might even want to see what other Gospel passages they use in the series before I rendered a judgment.

Peace,
Mark
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Old Mar 25, '13, 12:54 pm
steve b steve b is offline
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea View Post
I see very little difference between the two phrases. Half of those translations have, "Do this to remember me." I think you are wayyyyyyyyyyy overthinking this.

"Remember me by doing this," === "Do this to remember me."

In either wording, you can interpret it in two ways, IMO. Both of them leave open the idea that the remembrance will occur after the fact because of this one act that is happening in the present. Both of them leave open the idea that you can do this in the future for that reason.

Furthermore, I mean... what exactly do you think the agenda is here? Many (if not most) of the Protestant sects re-create the last supper as well. The disagreement is usually whether the Eucharist is actually the body of the Christ, or if it's more symbolic. But it's not like Protestants are all trying to stop people from re-creating the last supper. So I don't know what you think the agenda behind this would be...
The bible isn't a Protestant book. It's a Catholic book, written in, by for and canonized by the Catholic Church





Several things bothered me in the depiction of Luke's account of the Last Supper Luke 22:15-31 Not only how they depicted it, but also what they left out.
  • We know Jesus is instituting the Eucharist here. Yet the depiction never had Jesus mention He gave "thanks" εὐχαριστέω eucharisteō . Since Jesus is instituting the Eucharist, that's a huge elimination of language important to the context.
  • As an aside, when Jesus says to His apostles Do [ποιέω poieō] that word in the Greek, means Jesus bestows on His apostles the priestly power to do what Jesus instituted here at the Last Supper.
Definition of Do [ποιέω poieō]
  • 1)to make
    • a) with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
    • b)to be the authors of, the cause
    • c) to make ready, to prepare
    • d) to produce, bear, shoot forth
    • e) to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
    • f)to make a thing out of something
    • g) to (make i.e.) render one anything
  • 1) to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
  • 2)to (make i.e.) declare one anything
    • h) to put one forth, to lead him out
    • i)to make one do something
  • 1) cause one to
    • j)to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
Their depiction, as this entire series, left me unimpressed. If they screwed up the Last Supper this badly, what else did they manipulate that a viewer didn't necessarily see? Of course the uninformed and naive won't pick any of their errors up.
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Last edited by steve b; Mar 25, '13 at 1:07 pm.
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Old Mar 25, '13, 11:53 pm
filter2700 filter2700 is offline
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

Thanks for that info Steve, very helpful. I agree this show left me unimpressed. This series is aesthetically pleasing, I mean they have great wardrobe, decent actors, special effects and HD cameras, but the way they tell the story of the Bible hasn't made me go "oh wow this is ingenious." Its great they're sharing a "general" message of the Bible, but they could have at least made it with more substance and emotion, I'm not sure what word I'm looking for, but it definitely seems like something is missing. The actors aren't really that bad, but it still feels like something isn't quite right... Yes, they are squeezing in a lot of info into a few episodes, but it still appears like this show is lacking something, lacking the fierceness of the Holy Spirit you could say.

Whatever the case, its only a TV show.
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Old Mar 26, '13, 6:41 am
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

Quote:
We know Jesus is instituting the Eucharist here. Yet the depiction never had Jesus mention He gave "thanks" εὐχαριστέω eucharisteō . Since Jesus is instituting the Eucharist, that's a huge elimination of language important to the context.
I heard an interesting comment about Jesus giving thanks. It was noted that He did NOT give thanks when he distributed bread among the five thousand people miraculously. The only time He gave thanks was at the Last Supper. Obviously, the bread that was distributed among the crowd was not consecrated.
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Old Mar 26, '13, 3:06 pm
steve b steve b is offline
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Default Re: History Channels "The Bible" Last Supper/Communion Scene

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Originally Posted by Sirach2 View Post
I heard an interesting comment about Jesus giving thanks. It was noted that He did NOT give thanks when he distributed bread among the five thousand people miraculously. The only time He gave thanks was at the Last Supper. Obviously, the bread that was distributed among the crowd was not consecrated.
Good point.
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