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  #1  
Old Mar 27, '13, 4:48 pm
Irock104 Irock104 is offline
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Default Future of the SSPX...

Do you guys think that with the election of Pope Francis there's still a chance at reconciliation? Or has that boat already sailed?

Also what do you think the future of the SSPX will be if they choose not to be reconciled with Rome?
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  #2  
Old Mar 27, '13, 5:15 pm
Mrs Sally Mrs Sally is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

We've discussed this pretty thouroughly a few times already.

Personally, I don't think the SSPX will be a high priority for Pope Francis, but I have no special insight.

As for what happens if they don't formally reconcile - I guess there are a couple of scenarios.
1) they age off. As each bishop dies no one replaces him and eventually there just isn't an SSPX.
2) most people eventually reconcile individually over time and then scenario 1 or 3 happens with whoever is left.
3) they consecrate more bishops. That would then truly be in schism and no longer Catholic. Basically they will have created their own church.

I pray that 3 never, ever happens. I pray that 2 does happen. I think there will be some small group that end up in situation 1.
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  #3  
Old Mar 27, '13, 5:19 pm
GWright GWright is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irock104 View Post
Do you guys think that with the election of Pope Francis there's still a chance at reconciliation? Or has that boat already sailed?
Yes there will still be efforts towards a full reconciliation. SSPX are part of the Church, they are valid Catholic clergy, its just that they do not have a regular canonical status as yet. And so their priests currently lack full faculties to administer the sacraments.

Bishop Bernard Fellay (head of SSPX) said, when Benedict XVI abdicated (and surprised everyone), that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop Fellay
We will probably have to wait for the next pope.
Showing a continued willingness to work with Benedicts successor. He also said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop Fellay
I will even go so far as to say, at the risk of surprising you, that the Church has more important problems than the Society of St. Pius X, and in a way, it is by resolving these problems that the problem of the Society will be solved.
Which suggests he thinks that SSPX will not be seen as an immediate priority for Pope Francis - but that he understands why and actually desires the Pope fix other issues first.

Both quotes from:

http://www.sspx.org/superior_general..._2-15-2013.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irock104 View Post
Also what do you think the future of the SSPX will be if they choose not to be reconciled with Rome?
It is my dear wish that a full reconciliation is soon upon us.

However, should things break down, (and I pray they do not),then I consider that the SSPX future - as its own entity - will not be much different in either case. I think it will continue to grow at an impressive rate, as it has done since its inception, especially now that they have gotten rid of some dubious/troublesome characters like Bishop Richard Williamson.

I hope the Church can benefit from this vitality by having SSPX "in the fold".

You may also find this article interesting, in that it suggests some ideas for moving forward, which SSPX might consider:

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.co.u...-to-visit.html
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  #4  
Old Mar 27, '13, 5:55 pm
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JReducation JReducation is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

It would be interesting to hear how they feel about this new pope. What are their first impressions?
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  #5  
Old Mar 27, '13, 6:04 pm
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corsair corsair is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

I, personally don't think that there will be a reconciliation while Pope Francis is on the Chair of Peter. My feeling is that it will be another 50-75 years before anything happens.

I would love to be wrong.
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  #6  
Old Mar 27, '13, 6:11 pm
Boy Wonder Boy Wonder is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irock104 View Post
Do you guys think that with the election of Pope Francis there's still a chance at reconciliation? Or has that boat already sailed?

Also what do you think the future of the SSPX will be if they choose not to be reconciled with Rome?
Rome is ready willing and able. It's up to SSPX to swallow its pride and compromise.
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  #7  
Old Mar 27, '13, 7:05 pm
Mrs Sally Mrs Sally is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair View Post
I, personally don't think that there will be a reconciliation while Pope Francis is on the Chair of Peter. My feeling is that it will be another 50-75 years before anything happens.

I would love to be wrong.
That is too long a timeframe. I would say 20 years on the outside. If the current SSPX bishops die without consecrating any new bishops, there will be no confirmations or ordinations so the SSPX will soon cease to exist.

If the current bishops consecrate new bishops, they will all be excommunicated again and declared in schism. Bishops Fellay and Galarreta are relatively young, but the still within 20 years they will want to secure the succession.
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  #8  
Old Mar 27, '13, 11:02 pm
Moore11 Moore11 is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

Oh good! I was going through SSPX conjecture withdrawl....

I think that in the immediate future like a month or two there will be a dialouge. It could be real short. I know that before all of the hullabaloo there was supposed to be a formal response from the SSPX. I think that because this issue has been somewhat a front burner issue that it will continue to be though not at the level it was.
There will be a response most likely in the negative and then the ball will be back in the vatican's court.



But completely unrealated.

I had a very vivid dream the other night. I was at Castell Gandolfo with BXVI in a small dark room next to a lake. He would have visitors in this room and a few ducks would come in to be fed by him. He would throw bread at the ducks and we would all laugh. Fellay was there and he and Benedict were trying to work things out. Then Francis came into the room and Benedict asked if he could be the personal prelate and Bishop for the SSPX. Francis agreed but Fellay was still hesitant. There was a frustrating misunderstanding.
Benedict had used an example that when you are a little child it is hard to understand the Eucharist. Fellay took this as a denial of the Eucharist and Benedict and I were trying to get him to understand. He was livid and then I woke up.

And during one of the times that Fellay was receiving counsel from one of his aids, I looked into the eyes of Benedict and started to cry, He embraced me and smiled and said that God would protect me...
I had been feeling some apprehension about the new Pope and the state of the Church and world and I woke with no anxiety at all.


If I had to guess I would guess that Fellay is pleased as punch that they did not reconcile. I dont think he has any intent of being under this Pope. I hope and pray that I am wrong wrong wrong!!!!
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  #9  
Old Mar 27, '13, 11:03 pm
Moore11 Moore11 is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair View Post
I, personally don't think that there will be a reconciliation while Pope Francis is on the Chair of Peter. My feeling is that it will be another 50-75 years before anything happens.

I would love to be wrong.
Where do you get that from? 50 to 75? They dont have a bishop that will live that long and that could be 5-7 pontificates away!!!!
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  #10  
Old Mar 28, '13, 12:11 am
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JReducation JReducation is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moore11 View Post
I think that in the immediate future like a month or two there will be a dialouge. It could be real short. I know that before all of the hullabaloo there was supposed to be a formal response from the SSPX. I think that because this issue has been somewhat a front burner issue that it will continue to be though not at the level it was.
There will be a response most likely in the negative and then the ball will be back in the vatican's court.
Do you really think that the SSPX will respond? I'm asking because the written response is past due.

I do agree with you that this will not become a top 10 on the TO DO list, because the Holy Father will have to deal with personnel changes in the Curia first. Until they decide who is going to head the CDF and be the VP of ED, it makes no sense convening anything.

I understand that people are anxious to see Pope Francis do something other than figure out where he's going to sleep tonight. However, this man became pope at the worse possible time of year, a few days before Palm Sunday. There is a great deal of liturgical life going on and probably not too many people available to do anything else. The clergy that works at the Vatican often helps out all over Italy during these holy days.

Quote:
I had a very vivid dream the other night. I was at Castell Gandolfo with BXVI in a small dark room next to a lake. He would have visitors in this room and a few ducks would come in to be fed by him. He would throw bread at the ducks and we would all laugh. Fellay was there and he and Benedict were trying to work things out. Then Francis came into the room and Benedict asked if he could be the personal prelate and Bishop for the SSPX. Francis agreed but Fellay was still hesitant. There was a frustrating misunderstanding.
Benedict had used an example that when you are a little child it is hard to understand the Eucharist. Fellay took this as a denial of the Eucharist and Benedict and I were trying to get him to understand. He was livid and then I woke up.
If you're dreaming about this stuff, you have really personalized this. I mean that you have made it your own problem to resolve. That's what you were doing in the dream. You may want to consider putting distance between yourself and this issue, unless you want to keep dreaming like this. Dreams are usually connected to realities in the conscious world. More than half of them are about finding resolutions.

Quote:
If I had to guess I would guess that Fellay is pleased as punch that they did not reconcile. I dont think he has any intent of being under this Pope. I hope and pray that I am wrong wrong wrong!!!!
I've been looking through every SSPX page that I can find. They're rather cautious in their statements, almost PC. Maybe they don't know enough about him or maybe they know too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moore11 View Post
Where do you get that from? 50 to 75? They dont have a bishop that will live that long and that could be 5-7 pontificates away!!!!
I agree with Moore. How old is the youngest of the four SSPX bishops? That's what we have to look at. Assuming that they all remain healthy and have no accidental deaths, they will have a bishop for a while. The climax comes when they have to either ordain new bishops or come back to Rome. We know the consequences if they ordain new bishops.

I did read an interesting commentary by an SSPX priest who said, I have met him 5 or 6 times and he has always received me with benevolence, seeking to grant me what I wished, without going out of his way to overcome obstacles….

At first I swallowed the idea. After a few minutes I thought to myself, "Wait a minute, you're in serious trouble with the Holy See. Did it occur to you that it may be because a) he is not allowed to offer you more assistance that the basics, b) you don't belong in his diocese, because he has not invited you, and c) you're neither a Jesuit nor a diocesan priest. He has to serve the priests of his diocese, because he's their ordinary and the Jesuits, because their his brothers."

The article is longer. It's in DICI. He goes on to tell you what a low opinion he has of Pope Francis. I'm hoping that others don't share his opinion.
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  #11  
Old Mar 28, '13, 4:27 am
Cat Cat is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

Do you not think it's possible that the Lord Himself will discipline those in the SSPX who are creating the division between Catholics and the Catholic Church?

The New Testament contains the strongest warnings against creating factions in the Church.

At this point in history, most Protestants are under the spell of invincible ignorance and can truly claim that they didn't know that the Catholic Church is the True Church of Jesus Christ. The Catechism makes it clear that invincible ignorance reduces the culpability of Protestants who reject Catholicism.

But those brought up Catholic do not have the excuse of invincible ignorance. They have deliberately and wilfully walked away from the Catholic Church and created a "new" (or I should say, "old") Catholic Church, the SSPX. The clergy of this organization face an even harder judgment because they lead innocent laity away from the true Church.

This has all happened at a time in history when unity is vital for the Church. Because of the internet, Protestants and other non-Catholics are studying the Catholic Church, and they are confused by the factions. Factions give non-Catholics an excuse (suggested to them by Satan and his demons, of course) to not become Catholic; many Protestants read about the SSPX and other split-off groups and claim that divisions in the Church are OK with God, and therefore Protestantism is OK with God.

I can't talk about the state of other countries, but the very existence of the U.S. is threatened right now by a challenge to the Constitutional right of freedom to practice religion. Our President himself has issued this challenge, and the Catholic Church has risen to the challenge and demanded that the freedom of religion be totally restored. The Evangelical Protestants (many different denominations) have joined with the Catholic Church on this issue, and also with the issue of re-defining marriage (gay marriage), and to a certain extent, the issue of legalized abortion.

This "joining together" of Protestantism and Catholicism is a sign, a powerful sign that we need to pay attention to. A few decades ago, Evangelical Protestants would very likely not have stood shoulder to shoulder with the Catholic Church. Now they are working together in this battle for the very soul of the U.S.--this tells me that Church unity is near! Various Protestant and Catholic leaders, namely Charles Colson (RIP) and Father Richard John Neuhaus (RIP), saw the light and established the groundwork for the re-unification of the Catholics and the Evangelicals.

Isn't it interesting that both Mr. Colson and Father Neuhaus are now dead? Yes, they were both old, but not THAT old. How convenient for Satan that these two great leaders are no longer with us here on this earth.

The SSPX and others who create divisions give Evangelicals (and other non-Catholics) that excuse to not examine the Catholic Church. This is very serious. It's possible that the lack of unity in the Catholic Church could prevent the Evangelicals and Catholics from working together, and the U.S. itself could fall. And of course, the greatest tragedy is that the Catholics and Evangelicals will continue to remain separated instead of together. It breaks my heart to see Evangelicals who can't find their way back home through all the muck.

I personally think that God Himself will end the SSPX and bring the followers back into full fellowship with the Catholic Church. The longer we are "split," the more Satan will create havoc in the Church. Disunity weakens the Church.

I think we need to pray for the leaders of the SSPX, especially the clergy of this movement, that God will please have mercy and look upon the good intent of their hearts rather than condemn them for fostering factions in His Church.
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  #12  
Old Mar 28, '13, 4:46 am
GloriaMaria GloriaMaria is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

At the SSPX chapel near us no one has said a word about Pope Francis. Not one word. Nothing at all that I or my family have heard.

The article Brother mentioned from DICI is also the only opinion article about the Pope from the SSPX that I have found that has been put out there formally.

As we looked we also noticed that the tone changed on the SSPX website again, back to being more respectful and reasonable. Except for an article that came out of the French district, which spoke offensively about the OF. But one bad article out of two handfuls is a distinct improvement from the weeks just preceeding Benedict XVI announcement to leave.

We get no info over the email anymore. The priests of the SSPX were told by the superiors not to publish anything online. Not even the bulletin.

That's all I know.
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  #13  
Old Mar 28, '13, 6:55 am
Mike30 Mike30 is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
It would be interesting to hear how they feel about this new pope. What are their first impressions?
This is from their website under the Superior General notes section:

Communiqué from the SSPX's General House on the occasion of the election of Pope Francis

With the news of the election of Pope Francis, the Society of St. Pius X prays to Almighty God that He abundantly bestow on the new Sovereign Pontiff the graces necessary for the exercise of this heavy charge.

Strengthened by Divine Providence, may the new pope "confirm his brethren in the Faith"[1], with the authority which St. Pius X proclaimed at the beginning of his pontificate:

We do not wish to be, and with the divine assistance never shall be aught before human society but the Minister of God, of whose authority We are the depositary. The interests of God shall be Our interest, and for these We are resolved to spend all Our strength and Our very life.[2]

St. Francis of Assisi, whose name the new pontiff has taken, heard the Crucified Savior say to him, "Go, Francis and rebuild my Church." It is in such a spirit that the bishops, priests, and religious of the Society of St. Pius X assure the Holy Father of their filial desire "to restore all things in Christ, so that Christ may be all and in all”[3] according to their means, for the love of the Holy Catholic and Roman Church.

Menzingen, March 13, 2013

Sounds like pretty standard stuff to me. I haven't beeen able to find much of anything else.
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  #14  
Old Mar 28, '13, 8:56 am
aTraditionalist aTraditionalist is offline
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From what I've read, the faithful from SSPX have split and formed FSSP. FSSP is in full communion with Rome.


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  #15  
Old Mar 28, '13, 12:14 pm
Mrs Sally Mrs Sally is offline
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Default Re: Future of the SSPX...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moore11 View Post
Oh good! I was going through SSPX conjecture withdrawl....


We didn't want you to be too jittery without great threads like this.
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