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  #1  
Old Apr 15, '13, 2:25 pm
digiglior digiglior is offline
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Default The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

My roommate is a charistmatic non-denominational Christian and we have some interesting theogoical discussions. I am usually prepared to answer her questions thanks to Catholic Answers Live among other things. However, one this has stumped me and I would love some insight! She believes that everyone should pray in tongues because that is allowing the Holy Spirit into us. I responded with the passage regarding how everyone has different spiritual gifts and that as the body of Christ our gifts come together and complement eachother since we don't have all the gifts. She agreed except that speaking on tongues is apparently the only gift we all have. Her support for this is that on multiple occasions when the Holy Spirit comes upon people they all speak in tongues. Are there times in the bible where the Holy Spirit came upon people and they didn't speak in tongues? And how do I explain to her why it is inaunthentic to expect everyone to speak in tongues. By the way she demonstrated it for me on the spot, it sounded like aramaic but she does not know what she says.
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Old Apr 15, '13, 3:38 pm
Luke65 Luke65 is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

Welcome to CAF! This page from Scripture Catholic should help you (as will the whole website). God bless.
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  #3  
Old Apr 15, '13, 3:41 pm
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CHRISTINE77 CHRISTINE77 is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by digiglior View Post
My roommate is a charistmatic non-denominational Christian and we have some interesting theogoical discussions. I am usually prepared to answer her questions thanks to Catholic Answers Live among other things. However, one this has stumped me and I would love some insight! She believes that everyone should pray in tongues because that is allowing the Holy Spirit into us. I responded with the passage regarding how everyone has different spiritual gifts and that as the body of Christ our gifts come together and complement eachother since we don't have all the gifts. She agreed except that speaking on tongues is apparently the only gift we all have. Her support for this is that on multiple occasions when the Holy Spirit comes upon people they all speak in tongues. Are there times in the bible where the Holy Spirit came upon people and they didn't speak in tongues? And how do I explain to her why it is inaunthentic to expect everyone to speak in tongues. By the way she demonstrated it for me on the spot, it sounded like aramaic but she does not know what she says.
I found this here, which says that speaking in tongues is not the only way to receive the Holy Spirit. I believe the Holy Spirit enters us when we are totally receptive to God's will. Prayer can invoke the Holy Spirit, as long as you are truly asking the Lord for help, repenting or giving thanks. However, the Charismatic Christians do have a nice worship, praising God in tongues and song. Did you know there are Charismatic Catholics also?

Here is the website that explains about speaking in tongues as evidence of having the Holy Spirit:

http://www.gotquestions.org/tongues-Holy-Spirit.html
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Old Apr 15, '13, 3:48 pm
SonCatcher SonCatcher is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

If you search for the phrase "filled with the Holy Spirit", many of the passages involve prophesy or instruction, however, only in Acts 2:4 does it actually involve speaking in unlearned tongues.

The closest support your friend has for her argument is 1 Corinthians 14:5 where St. Paul expresses that he wishes everyone could have this particular charism. However, in that same verse, he writes that prophesy is a still greater gift.

In 1 Corinthians 12:30, he asks the rhetorical question, "Do all speak in tongues?" The implicit answer is "No." There is no requirement that a believer speak in tongues.

Sandwiched between the previous mentioned verses is a foremost teaching on living the Christian life. I would suggest to your friend that she review that chapter (1 Corinthians 13, in case the above is too obtuse) frequently so she does not become a "sounding gong" in the ears of those around her.

BTW, the charism of tongues is certainly not the only one (St. Paul mentions several in this letter) and it certainly is not a "gateway" to the other gifts. There are, for example, many who heal but lack the charism of tongues.
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Old Apr 15, '13, 3:56 pm
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anruari anruari is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

To claim that all who received the Spirit played in tounges is to read into the Scripture something that isn't there.
Many times when the spirit came some of those there redirected the gift of tounges.
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Old Apr 15, '13, 3:58 pm
sennincatholic sennincatholic is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by digiglior View Post
My roommate is a charistmatic non-denominational Christian and we have some interesting theogoical discussions. I am usually prepared to answer her questions thanks to Catholic Answers Live among other things. However, one this has stumped me and I would love some insight! She believes that everyone should pray in tongues because that is allowing the Holy Spirit into us. I responded with the passage regarding how everyone has different spiritual gifts and that as the body of Christ our gifts come together and complement eachother since we don't have all the gifts. She agreed except that speaking on tongues is apparently the only gift we all have. Her support for this is that on multiple occasions when the Holy Spirit comes upon people they all speak in tongues. Are there times in the bible where the Holy Spirit came upon people and they didn't speak in tongues? And how do I explain to her why it is inaunthentic to expect everyone to speak in tongues. By the way she demonstrated it for me on the spot, it sounded like aramaic but she does not know what she says.
Be careful!dont get too excited!by the way..what makes you think it was aramaic?
I cant remember the verse but i think in one of Paul's letters he clearly warned against speaking in tongues when there is no body around to interprete the tongues because even demons can speak in tongues and if your friend was realy "speaking in tongues " infront of you on a whimp(very unlikely because you should not put the Lord your got to the test and thats what she just did because she was trying to prove to you she could speak in tongues) how would you know what she was saying?what purpose did it serve for both of you.she could as well have been cursing you man..
I believe you are a catholic so dont get involved into those weird things that those people who don't even know their left from their right do..
  #7  
Old Apr 15, '13, 4:01 pm
digiglior digiglior is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

Thank you everyone that was really helpful. I had searched the forums and internet and couldn't find good answers. I will pray about the best way to give the information to her.
  #8  
Old Apr 15, '13, 4:03 pm
digiglior digiglior is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennincatholic View Post
Be careful!dont get too excited!by the way..what makes you think it was aramaic?
I cant remember the verse but i think in one of Paul's letters he clearly warned against speaking in tongues when there is no body around to interprete the tongues because even demons can speak in tongues and if your friend was realy "speaking in tongues " infront of you on a whimp(very unlikely because you should not put the Lord your got to the test and thats what she just did because she was trying to prove to you she could speak in tongues) how would you know what she was saying?what purpose did it serve for both of you.she could as well have been cursing you man..
I believe you are a catholic so dont get involved into those weird things that those people who don't even know their left from their right do..
Oh don't worry I didn't think it was authentic and I have no intentions to subscribe to her theology it is way too out there and not founded in scripture (only their "intepretations of it"). I was just saying it sounded like aramaic which was weird but I definitely don't think she could just do it on cue if it were from the Holy Spirit.
  #9  
Old Apr 15, '13, 4:04 pm
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Ad Orientem Ad Orientem is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

1 Cor. 12:30 "Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues?" (Rhetorical questions to which the obvious answer is 'no.')
  #10  
Old Apr 15, '13, 4:07 pm
digiglior digiglior is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

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Originally Posted by Ad Orientem View Post
1 Cor. 12:30 "Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues?" (Rhetorical questions to which the obvious answer is 'no.')
I tried that in my original discussion with her. She essentially told me I was flat out wrong (so the scripture is wrong then?). She tends to pull certain scripture out of context to support her views and isn't one to be reasoned with. It is a challenge, but God will work through me I am sure
  #11  
Old Apr 15, '13, 4:42 pm
sennincatholic sennincatholic is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

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Originally Posted by digiglior View Post
Oh don't worry I didn't think it was authentic and I have no intentions to subscribe to her theology it is way too out there and not founded in scripture (only their "intepretations of it"). I was just saying it sounded like aramaic which was weird but I definitely don't think she could just do it on cue if it were from the Holy Spirit.
May God Bless you and fill you with His Holy Spirit.
  #12  
Old Apr 15, '13, 5:41 pm
SaintFrancis333 SaintFrancis333 is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by digiglior View Post
My roommate is a charistmatic non-denominational Christian and we have some interesting theogoical discussions. I am usually prepared to answer her questions thanks to Catholic Answers Live among other things. However, one this has stumped me and I would love some insight! She believes that everyone should pray in tongues because that is allowing the Holy Spirit into us. I responded with the passage regarding how everyone has different spiritual gifts and that as the body of Christ our gifts come together and complement eachother since we don't have all the gifts. She agreed except that speaking on tongues is apparently the only gift we all have. Her support for this is that on multiple occasions when the Holy Spirit comes upon people they all speak in tongues. Are there times in the bible where the Holy Spirit came upon people and they didn't speak in tongues? And how do I explain to her why it is inaunthentic to expect everyone to speak in tongues. By the way she demonstrated it for me on the spot, it sounded like aramaic but she does not know what she says.
Speaking in Tongues is a charism of the Holy Spirit. It is a gift given to people directly from God. People do not get to choose their charism. Many people go through their entire lives without ever being given a charism, or if they do they don't properly discern it. And yet at these "charismatic" groups, be they Catholic or protestant, eeeeveryone is speaking in "tongues". People are highjacking God and pretending they have a charism they do not. They get emotional/mental stimulation from what they perceive as a heightened experience of God when "communicating" in "tongues" and so they just keep going on and on with it. That is not what Tongues was about. It was for VERY select individuals who were evangelizing in unknown regions with unknown dialects/languages. This whole speaking gibberish nonsense is just a protestant fad that leaked into the fringes of Catholicism that draws in a lot of younger Catholics and those weak in their faith.
  #13  
Old Apr 15, '13, 6:11 pm
Ismael Ismael is offline
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by digiglior View Post
My roommate is a charistmatic non-denominational Christian and we have some interesting theogoical discussions. I am usually prepared to answer her questions thanks to Catholic Answers Live among other things. However, one this has stumped me and I would love some insight! She believes that everyone should pray in tongues because that is allowing the Holy Spirit into us.
Well.. where is that in the bible, ask her.

Paul says SOME have the gift of tongues... he does not say all have it or ought to have it.

St. Paul says (1 Corinthians 12):

Quote:
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
ALSO: The gift of tongues, I think, is more like Peter at Pentecost, i.e. he preached in Aramaic, but people could hear him in their own mothertongue...

I do not think that the bible ever regards 'the gift of tongues' as the 'jibberish praying' of pentecostals


YES, there IS a gift of 'understanding tongues' but that might and probably means understanding HUMAN tongues, not jibberish.... i.e. the gift of understanding what foreing people said miraculously, as some saints also could.


Quote:
I responded with the passage regarding how everyone has different spiritual gifts and that as the body of Christ our gifts come together and complement eachother since we don't have all the gifts. She agreed except that speaking on tongues is apparently the only gift we all have.
She is right, we all speak some tongue or another (tongue = language/dialect in ye old times!)

Well except mutes... they read and write tongues...

Quote:
Her support for this is that on multiple occasions when the Holy Spirit comes upon people they all speak in tongues.
How does she know it's a gift and not just a psychological effect. Do they even know what they are saying?

Quote:
Are there times in the bible where the Holy Spirit came upon people and they didn't speak in tongues? And how do I explain to her why it is inaunthentic to expect everyone to speak in tongues.
There are many accounts when the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God comes on people in the Old and New Testament, but the only time I recall the 'speaking of tongues' is Pentecost.

Let's read from Acts 2:

Quote:
When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”
To note that the word 'tongues' also means 'languages'.

It seems that EVERYONE understood them. Some people sais 'thei are drunk' but apparently everyone understood the in their own language or dialect.

I think THAT is the gft of tongues/languages... not some jibberish.

Moreover the apostels KNEW what they were saying!

The same for Paul in Acts 19:6, where he speaks in tongue... preaching and prophetizing, evidently people did understand him otherwise he would not be preaching!

Quote:
By the way she demonstrated it for me on the spot, it sounded like aramaic but she does not know what she says.
Are you sure it sounds liek Aramaic?

Also I could produce weird sounds that sound like hebrew or chinese, or russian. It's HUGE on parties, I make load of people laugh doing this tricks... but it's nothing divine!

So making up jibberish that sounds like some language (if indeed it does) is not really that hard...

Aramaic sounds like this, apparently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROM5EpCQUlg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4536l4Y4VY

at least MODERN Aramaic...


Let me tell you I would be 'speaking' like that (without saying anything meaningful)... and that would not be a gift from God (unless you do not count comedy as one).
  #14  
Old Apr 21, '13, 9:32 pm
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

I believe that speaking in 'tongues' is not necessarily speaking in a foreign language or 'gibberish'.

I believe that speaking in tongues is speaking the Word or Truth of God, especially via the Holy Spirit, so that you are heard, understood and it is accepted.

I have personal experience with this, and believe it to be, as the Holy Spirit told me, in words, language and experiences that I could understand.
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Old Apr 22, '13, 9:06 am
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Default Re: The Holy Spirit and Gift of Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by digiglior View Post
My roommate is a charistmatic non-denominational Christian and we have some interesting theogoical discussions. I am usually prepared to answer her questions thanks to Catholic Answers Live among other things. However, one this has stumped me and I would love some insight! She believes that everyone should pray in tongues because that is allowing the Holy Spirit into us. I responded with the passage regarding how everyone has different spiritual gifts and that as the body of Christ our gifts come together and complement eachother since we don't have all the gifts. She agreed except that speaking on tongues is apparently the only gift we all have. Her support for this is that on multiple occasions when the Holy Spirit comes upon people they all speak in tongues. Are there times in the bible where the Holy Spirit came upon people and they didn't speak in tongues? And how do I explain to her why it is inaunthentic to expect everyone to speak in tongues. By the way she demonstrated it for me on the spot, it sounded like aramaic but she does not know what she says.
Don't be impressed by her "Aramaic". She may well not even be speaking in tongues herself.
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