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  #1  
Old May 10, '13, 3:51 pm
jpink1019 jpink1019 is offline
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Default Mary Co-Redeemer

I want a simple answer.
Does the Catholic Church teach that Mary is a co-Redeemer with christ?
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  #2  
Old May 10, '13, 4:06 pm
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FrancisBenedict FrancisBenedict is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Here's a simple if long answer:

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.c...o_Our_Lady.php
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  #3  
Old May 10, '13, 4:39 pm
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Ad Orientem Ad Orientem is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancisBenedict View Post
. . . mostholyfamilymonastery. . .
That article may be okay, but I point out for our viewers' information that Bro. Peter Diamond et al. in Fillmore NY are not in communion with Rome, and their website contains polemics against the Church.
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  #4  
Old May 10, '13, 4:46 pm
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Ad Orientem Ad Orientem is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpink1019 View Post
I want a simple answer.
Does the Catholic Church teach that Mary is a co-Redeemer with christ?
Yes.

Not in an equal role (she is a mere creature), but by cooperation.

In a lesser way you and I are co-redeemers every time we pray for people or share the gospel message. God could of course save people without our help, but he chooses to use human instruments.

Mary's role goes deeper than that, because of her unique relationship to God. But again, it is a cooperation in Christ's redemption, not a parallel redemption.

Vatican II put it this way:
In conceiving Christ, in giving birth to Him, in feeding Him, in presenting Him to the Father in the Temple, in suffering with Him, as He died on the cross, she cooperated in the work of the Savior in an altogether singular way, by obedience, faith, hope and burning love, to restore supernatural life to souls. (Lumen Gentium #61)
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  #5  
Old May 10, '13, 4:54 pm
pablope pablope is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpink1019 View Post
I want a simple answer.
Does the Catholic Church teach that Mary is a co-Redeemer with christ?
How do you define or understand the phase...."co-redeemer with Christ"?

How do you define or understand....."co??
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  #6  
Old May 10, '13, 5:17 pm
snarflemike snarflemike is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablope View Post
How do you define or understand the phase...."co-redeemer with Christ"?

How do you define or understand....."co??
That is the big question. What is the concept that the OP understands by the phrase? Clarify that and we can offer a solid answer.
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  #7  
Old May 10, '13, 5:40 pm
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po18guy po18guy is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpink1019 View Post
I want a simple answer.
Does the Catholic Church teach that Mary is a co-Redeemer with christ?
If you seek the truth - and it is clear that you do - then you should avail yourself of a copy of Catholicism for Dummies. In it, you can find the truth, in easily read and understood terms, about what the Catholic Church believes and teaches. I do not expect that you will ever be a Catholic, but our responsibility to the truth demands that you also know the truth before forming an opinion.
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  #8  
Old May 10, '13, 6:33 pm
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Tarpeian Rock Tarpeian Rock is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

As I recall, Pope Benedict was not in favor of a formal proclamation of that title. We can say what we want in terms of "co" meaning "with" or "co-operation," but the term as used today implies an equality (as in "co-president" or "co-chairman") that is theologically inaccurate, and would prove to be a source of confusion. Such confusion and misunderstanding does no honor to Our Lady.
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  #9  
Old May 10, '13, 6:43 pm
jpjd jpjd is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Ditto what Tarpeian Rock said.

The concept behind "co-redeemer" is fine; the term makes me wary.

In the English language anyway, the prefix "co-" indicates an equality between members:
co-workers, co-chairs.

Dictionary.com defines "co-" this way:

prefix 1. together; joint or jointly; mutual or mutually: coproduction 2. indicating partnership or equality: cofounder ; copilot 3. to the same or a similar degree: coextend

This is how 99% of people understand the prefix "co-".

And yet with the word co-redeemer, Catholics have to explain that in the Catholic world of words, co-redeemer means that Mary is NOT equal to Jesus our Redeemer. It's ridiculous. Why are we using this term?
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  #10  
Old May 10, '13, 6:50 pm
CaptFun CaptFun is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpink1019 View Post
I want a simple answer.
Does the Catholic Church teach that Mary is a co-Redeemer with christ?
Yes.

But "CO-" is not "equal to" Christ (as if Mary were divine or died on a cross for us).

"CO-" is meant in the sense of:

ALSO a CRITICAL PERSON in Christ's (actual) plan and action of Salvation.

More like: "Starring Jesus Christ". Co-starring "Mary of Nazareth".

Or: Pilot: Jesus Christ (flies the plane). Co-pilot: Mary (does not fly the plane but assists in other ways).

Rather than Co-Champions: Each of two people are equally Champions. (For example - The Church never calls JESUS a Co-Redeemer - He is THE Redeemer).

WHY Jesus decided to have Mary BE a part of that plan is another question. The ACTUAL plan of Salvation involved a new covenant similar to the OT covenant with "Father" Abraham. < Who in a like manner is not equalto "God the Father" of course.

But - scripture calls Abraham "Father" and Mary "Mother". High and honorary titles - to be CONSIDERED by believers, not dismissed or crabbed against. Not that you are doing such, but some folks do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix <wikipedia (some background)

http://www.voxpopuli.org/response_to...ions_part1.php (more detailed theological look at the doctrine and objections to it).
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  #11  
Old May 10, '13, 6:59 pm
Love4All Love4All is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

First: the term in question is not "Co-redeemer," it is "Co-redemptrix." An academic point to be sure, but let us speak accurately about what is in question.

Secondly: Mary is Co-redemptrix and Mediatrix of Grace. This is the constant teaching of the Saints.

Third: my second point is currently a point of contention, and as such, can only be definitively settled by the Pope.

In conclusion: Ask the Pope!
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  #12  
Old May 10, '13, 7:06 pm
aemcpa aemcpa is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpink1019 View Post
I want a simple answer.
Wouldn't you rather have the right answer? The truths of the Catholic Faith can't all be expressed on Twitter.
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  #13  
Old May 10, '13, 7:06 pm
TimothyH TimothyH is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

No Catholic should ever be afraid of Mary's role as co-redeemer. No Catholic should every shy away from such a statement. Such is squarely rooted in scripture.

Read about the mother of the seven sons in 2 Maccabees 7, how she encouraged her sons to remain faithful in the face of death, and you will see what Mary was like and why she participated in Christ's mission.
She encouraged each of them in the language of their fathers. Filled with a noble spirit, she fired her woman's reasoning with a man's courage, and said to them, "I do not know how you came into being in my womb. It was not I who gave you life and breath, nor I who set in order the elements within each of you. Therefore the Creator of the world, who shaped the beginning of man and devised the origin of all things, will in his mercy give life and breath back to you again, since you now forget yourselves for the sake of his laws." (2 Maccabees 7:21-23)

"My son, have pity on me. I carried you nine months in my womb, and nursed you for three years, and have reared you and brought you up to this point in your life, and have taken care of you. I beseech you, my child, to look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them, and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed. Thus also mankind comes into being. Do not fear this butcher, but prove worthy of your brothers. Accept death, so that in God's mercy I may get you back again with your brothers." (2 Maccabees 7:27-29)
People think that Mary was at the foot of the Cross, sheepishly weeping, weak and distraught. Nothing however, could be further from the truth. Like the mother of the seven sons, she encouraged her son to remain faithful to his mission.

Mary is the "Perfect helpmate" to Christ spoken about in Genesis 2:18. To the extent that Mary is that perfect helpmate, she is also the co-redeemer.

Mary is like Judith, who remained faithful in the face of extreme danger, and cut of the head of the enemy of Israel and saved the entire nation.

No Catholic should ever be ashamed or afraid of calling Mary the co-redeemer.


-Tim-
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  #14  
Old May 10, '13, 7:09 pm
aemcpa aemcpa is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Mary was the only person whose direct cooperation was necessary for the work of salvation to be accomplished by Christ. Without Mary's consent, God the Son could not have been incarnate. That is the primary reason that she merits the title of Co-Redemptrix.
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  #15  
Old May 10, '13, 7:45 pm
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bzkoss236 bzkoss236 is offline
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Default Re: Mary Co-Redeemer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjd View Post
Ditto what Tarpeian Rock said.

The concept behind "co-redeemer" is fine; the term makes me wary.

In the English language anyway, the prefix "co-" indicates an equality between members:
co-workers, co-chairs.

Dictionary.com defines "co-" this way:

prefix 1. together; joint or jointly; mutual or mutually: coproduction 2. indicating partnership or equality: cofounder ; copilot 3. to the same or a similar degree: coextend

This is how 99% of people understand the prefix "co-".

And yet with the word co-redeemer, Catholics have to explain that in the Catholic world of words, co-redeemer means that Mary is NOT equal to Jesus our Redeemer. It's ridiculous. Why are we using this term?
As you indicated with your posting of the dictionary.com reference, there are various uses of co-, not all of them imply equality. The first definition fits more with how we use it here. 'Co-' as in jointly. To show this, you can have a 'co-worker', someone you work with, but that does not necessarily mean equality. Yes, some of your 'co-workers' are on an equal level, but not all. However, they all help together in running the company. Even a 'co-pilot' is not equal to a pilot. The 'co-pilot' is there to assist, but the pilot has the total authority on the plane. Similarly, Mary, just as the other saints, you, and I, all help in each other's salvation. Ultimately, Jesus is our president, the man who makes the final decisions and has all the power.

I can refer to my brother as a my 'co-redeemer' for bringing me back to Christ after my time away. This does not mean that he plays an equal role to Christ.
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